Once Saved Always Saved: True, False, or Misrepresented?

[motherprayer]

Active repentance means leaving behind what is not secure .

If the scripture says that apart from the law sin is dead

and you find a faith oriented way to learn from God

why would you risk eroding your secure position?

for example .

If the bible says .. to think on these good, noble and trustworthy things .. to speak to one another in psalms .

some people say show me the money .. but i think the kingdom is lacking in honey . the sweet stuff . the real stuff that is sweet . like nature intended .

i want some of that fruit of the spirit and peace that protects my heart surpassing my understanding and that love that is beyond knowing .

look into the hearts of others and say .. i do what i see the father do .

now that's meat . the real presence of God . all the time .

Ooooh yes! Amen!

 

[allykelly07]

Active repentance means leaving behind what is not secure .

If the scripture says that apart from the law sin is dead

and you find a faith oriented way to learn from God

why would you risk eroding your secure position?

for example .

If the bible says .. to think on these good, noble and trustworthy things .. to speak to one another in psalms .

some people say show me the money .. but i think the kingdom is lacking in honey . the sweet stuff . the real stuff that is sweet . like nature intended .

i want some of that fruit of the spirit and peace that protects my heart surpassing my understanding and that love that is beyond knowing .

look into the hearts of others and say .. i do what i see the father do .

now that's meat . the real presence of God . all the time .

Yes, active repentance. That's the whole point. If it stops being active, if we stop feeding the new man, the spiritual milk, what do you think is going to happen? Moving onto maturity, scripture speaks of in Hebrews 6, right after it says to move onto maturity, it says that if we fall away, we cannot be brought back to repentance again, to our loss, it would be like crucifying the son of God all over again. I would not have true love for you or others, if I didn't warn you as scripture does, what will happen if we think we can never fall away, we will do just that, because we will not be on guard against the leaven. Loving people, is not like so many say it is Michael. That is the deception that is spreading through the entire world. They say "oh we just accept everyone, and love them". They don't preach the gospel to save their souls, because that would mean being hated by all men. Everyone, including me, would rather have acceptance, or approval of men, rather than God. We must resist that inclination, because we know that the true gospel of Christ, offends everyone. Christ said this would happen, and His love, (what He did and said while here), is much different than the love that many people talk about today. He told them the truth, He didn't walk around saying that He loved them, but rather, He loved them, because He spoke the truth, even when they hated Him for it.

 

[allykelly07]

People would rather hear what their itching ears want to hear, and what makes them feel good, rather than the truth. Which is what scripture says would happen, in the last days.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Yes, active repentance. That's the whole point. If it stops being active, if we stop feeding the new man, the spiritual milk, what do you think is going to happen? Moving onto maturity, scripture speaks of in Hebrews 6, right after it says to move onto maturity, it says that if we fall away, we cannot be brought back to repentance again, to our loss, it would be like crucifying the son of God all over again. I would not have true love for you or others, if I didn't warn you as scripture does, what will happen if we think we can never fall away, we will do just that, because we will not be on guard against the leaven. Loving people, is not like so many say it is Michael. That is the deception that is spreading through the entire world. They say "oh we just accept everyone, and love them". They don't preach the gospel to save their souls, because that would mean being hated by all men. Everyone, including me, would rather have acceptance, or approval of men, rather than God. We must resist that inclination, because we know that the true gospel of Christ, offends everyone. Christ said this would happen, and His love, (what He did and said while here), is much different than the love that many people talk about today. He told them the truth, He didn't walk around saying that He loved them, but rather, He loved them, because He spoke the truth, even when they hated Him for it.

Love is something very deep for me . it goes beyond actions . it's the source of all that is. when the bible says God is love . i really get that . i didn't used to . but now .. i really do .

What you're mocking as love .. isn't ... really what i'm talking about .

and truth .. that's really deep . Jesus said he is the truth .. and that truth sets free . there's always so much more to it than algebra of words .

i hope you have a good evening .

 

[allykelly07]

Love is something very deep for me . it goes beyond actions . it's the source of all that is. when the bible says God is love . i really get that . i didn't used to . but now .. i really do .

What you're mocking as love .. isn't ... really what i'm talking about .

and truth .. that's really deep . Jesus said he is the truth .. and that truth sets free . there's always so much more to it than algebra of words .

i hope you have a good evening .

I hope that you truly do understand what love is. That it is not just words, nor just actions, nor our own love, but Gods love through us, to speak the truth, that saves souls. "Greater love has no man than this, that he lays down his life for his friends". If we aren't giving our lives to God, in complete obedience to His commands, and living to save souls, by preaching the truth, we do not have love for the Father, or others. It does go deep, I only hope that we all are really finding out who God is, and what the one truth that saves is. That we continue in the faith, to finish the race, and fight the good fight, till the end, so that we do not give up. It's a hard narrow way, there are few that grasp it, or enter, so we must not be relaxed on this so great a salvation. Or pretend that it is easier than it really is. "How shall we escape, if we ignore so great a salvation?"

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I hope that you truly do understand what love is. That it is not just words, nor just actions, nor our own love, but Gods love through us, to speak the truth, that saves souls. "Greater love has no man than this, that he lays down his life for his friends". If we aren't giving our lives to God, in complete obedience to His commands, and living to save souls, by preaching the truth, we do not have love for the Father, or others. It does go deep, I only hope that we all are really finding out who God is, and what the one truth that saves is. That we continue in the faith, to finish the race, and fight the good fight, till the end, so that we do not give up. It's a hard narrow way, there are few that grasp it, or enter, so we must not be relaxed on this so great a salvation. Or pretend that it is easier than it really is. "How shall we escape, if we ignore so great a salvation?"

God's love is even greater

While we were yet his enemies .. he died for us .. and called the one who betrayed him with a kiss .. friend .

 

[Giver]

God's love is even greater

While we were yet his enemies .. he died for us .. and called the one who betrayed him with a kiss .. friend .

I have a hard time following what some people are sharing. But I hear people saying they love, and they especially love Jesus. Yet it seems many of these same people admit they still sin. Sin is disobeying Jesus, how can one who disobeys Jesus believe that he or she loves him?

Jesus tells us that to love him is to obey, and live his Word. Sinning is not living God’s Word.

(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(Ephesians 2-2) “ As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.”

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I have a hard time following what some people are sharing. But I hear people saying they love, and they especially love Jesus. Yet it seems many of these same people admit they still sin. Sin is disobeying Jesus, how can one who disobeys Jesus believe that he or she loves him?

Jesus tells us that to love him is to obey, and live his Word. Sinning is not living God’s Word.

(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(Ephesians 2-2) “ As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.”

I don't follow . but the forum rules do say to discuss the post . not the poster . i don't see how your verses relate to my post that was quoted in yours .

 

[Giver]

I don't follow . but the forum rules do say to discuss the post . not the poster . i don't see how your verses relate to my post that was quoted in yours .

I was having a hard time understanding what you were saying.

It seemed to me you were trying to understand God’s love, or what it is to love God.

It seemed to me people were understanding that because God loves us that he would accept disobedience.

I just could not make any sense out of what people were sharing,

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I was having a hard time understanding what you were saying.

It seemed to me you were trying to understand God’s love, or what it is to love God.

It seemed to me people were understanding that because God loves us that he would accept disobedience.

I just could not make any sense out of what people were sharing,

I take theology from the basis that love is the root of it like Jesus Paul and John taught . James as well .

Since the main thing we're looking at here is "confidence on the day of judgment" and God i.e. Love being made complete in us is the determining factor in such confidence .. and this is contrasted against fear ... any teaching rooted in fear is counterproductive to that activity.

 

[Giver]

I take theology from the basis that love is the root of it like Jesus Paul and John taught . James as well .

Since the main thing we're looking at here is "confidence on the day of judgment" and God i.e. Love being made complete in us is the determining factor in such confidence .. and this is contrasted against fear ... any teaching rooted in fear is counterproductive to that activity.

No wonder I could not understand you. Jesus has made a home in me, and has protected me for Satan/sin for over thirty some years. Fear! The only fear I have is for those who still sin.

Jesus has taken my hand and has guided me for forty years, and that trip is so wonderful and there was never any fear.

If one is still committing sin he or she had better fear God’s punishment.

In my understanding you have a false belief that God will just over look sin that one deliberately commits.

You ignore verses such as the following.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No wonder I could not understand you. Jesus has made a home in me, and has protected me for Satan/sin for over thirty some years. Fear! The only fear I have is for those who still sin.

Jesus has taken my hand and has guided me for forty years, and that trip is so wonderful and there was never any fear.

If one is still committing sin he or she had better fear God’s punishment.

In my understanding you have a false belief that God will just over look sin that one deliberately commits.

You ignore verses such as the following.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

I don't ignore sin . i torch it . and create better stuff in its place . that's what love does inside me .

 

[Giver]

I don't ignore sin . i torch it . and create better stuff in its place . that's what love does inside me .

You ignore sin touch it, what sort of illusion is you talking about?

Sin is any wrongdoing. If one sin he or she is of the devil, now how do you ignore that?

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

 

[allykelly07]

I have a hard time following what some people are sharing. But I hear people saying they love, and they especially love Jesus. Yet it seems many of these same people admit they still sin. Sin is disobeying Jesus, how can one who disobeys Jesus believe that he or she loves him?

Jesus tells us that to love him is to obey, and live his Word. Sinning is not living God’s Word.

(John 14:23) “Jesus replied: Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”

(Ephesians 2-2) “ As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.”

1 John 1:6-8
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

We all sin daily, and we are in need of daily cleansing. Sin is not just the outward, Christ said that we sin inwardly, even if we think something wrong, we have already committed it in our heart, and it is just as evil to God. We stumble in many ways everyday, but if we are walking in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin. Just believing once, doesn't cleanse us from all sin, we must walk, in the light.

 

[Giver]

1 John 1:6-8
6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

We all sin daily, and we are in need of daily cleansing. Sin is not just the outward, Christ said that we sin inwardly, even if we think something wrong, we have already committed it in our heart, and it is just as evil to God. We stumble in many ways everyday, but if we are walking in the light as He is in the light, the blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin. Just believing once, doesn't cleanse us from all sin, we must walk, in the light.

Satan keeps telling people that they will always sin, and that is a lie. Satan is a liar. Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit. Now people have more power than Satan. People no longer are under the power of Satan.

If one now sins he or she are of the devil.

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

 

[allykelly07]

Satan keeps telling people that they will always sin, and that is a lie. Satan is a liar. Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit. Now people have more power than Satan. People no longer are under the power of Satan.

If one now sins he or she are of the devil.

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work”

It sounds like your just spitting things out that you have always heard. If we never sin, that means that we are good, and Christ said there is "no one good except for God." Paul said, it is sin living in us that does it. We do not want it, we hate it, but it still happens, because of sin living in us. We do not willfully sin, and that is the difference. Nor do we justify it. But we "hate, even the sin stained garment, of corrupted flesh." We still have our flesh, when we accept Christ, and it is "waging war against the Spirit". "We do, what we do not want to do, so it is sin living in us."

 

[allykelly07]

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

 

[sonshine234]

I came across this question while surfing the web on the topic of OSAS and it intrigues me :

"If a Christian is in bed with a prostitute committing adultery, and during the very act of intercourse a stray bullet from the gun of a drive-by shooter strikes him in the head and kills him instantly, will he go to heaven or hell?"

I was wondering what you guys thought .

Only God can answer that

 

[Giver]

"If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

It is only Satan that can make people so miss understand the written Word of God to post something so wrong as what you did.

Read this, you need to see John was saying: “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar.” Can’t you see John was telling people everyone has sinned, and one would be a liar if he said they had not? John was not telling people who no longer sinned that they were liars by admitting they no longer sinned.

By not believing that John is telling us we are to live without sinning is calling John a liar. John tells us one who sins has never known God.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin: anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

 

[allykelly07]

It is only Satan that can make people so miss understand the written Word of God to post something so wrong as what you did.

Read this, you need to see John was saying: “If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar.” Can’t you see John was telling people everyone has sinned, and one would be a liar if he said they had not? John was not telling people who no longer sinned that they were liars by admitting they no longer sinned.

By not believing that John is telling us we are to live without sinning is calling John a liar. John tells us one who sins has never known God.

(1 John 1: 8-10) “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.”

You need to see John was saying if one says he or she says they have never sinned they are liars.

If one is forgiven of all unrighteousness are they not then sinless? Could they then be liars if they say they are sinless?

John later says:

(1 John 3:3-9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin: anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray’ to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy’ to lead a sinful life is to belong the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”

John told us those who did not know God sinned and asked forgiveness and were forgiven, but once a person comes to know God he or she will not sin.

Scripture goes on to say that if a person who does know God uses their free will to sin there is no repentance for that person.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There is left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood of the covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

If we DELIBERATELY, keep on sinning, no sacrifice for sin is left. But if we do not allow it to overtake us, and we hate what we do, and do not want to do it, that is different. Paul said that he did what he did not want to do, and it was sin living in him. Fighting the good fight is to continue to fight this flesh that is so prevalent in us. Sin, still lives in us, but that doesn't mean that we deliberately keep on sinning. I have to fight my flesh daily, "by the Spirit, put to death the misdeeds of the body." That is what we must do. Sin still lives in us, but because we are walking in the light, as He is in the light, we are being cleansed daily. I understand the scriptures that you have given, but it must go with all of the word of God, and not just some.

I am sorry for that comment I said about spitting things out..... I did not realize your age. But I would like to reason the word out with you, so that we might come into agreement on what just the word says.