Once Saved Always Saved: True, False, or Misrepresented?

CityOfGod said:

You make no sense. The scripture says adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God. I am not judging I'm simply taking God at his word.

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It also says nobody is good but God. So I guess that means everybody but God is a thief, adulterer, murderer, etc, etc (according to the law). So how the heck are we going to get in?

So if God gives me a gift .. and it can be taken away .. and its not reliable .. then how is that good news?

Nanopants said:

It also says nobody is good but God. So I guess that means everybody but God is a thief, adulterer, murderer, etc, etc (according to the law). So how the heck are we going to get in?

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We sin daily in our hearts. To be saved and accepted by God, we live by the Spirit of Christ, rather than our earthly nature. Daily dying to ourselves. We are not saved by outward works, but we are by sowing to the Spirit, and of the inwards works, of conforming to Christ, and His mind.

I gave many verses on page 6, about OSAS being a false representation of salvation. It cannot be taken away, but we can walk away from it. Shown in many verses in scripture.

allykelly07 said:

I gave many verses on page 6, about OSAS being a false representation of salvation. It cannot be taken away, but we can walk away from it. Shown in many verses in scripture.

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So we cannot be plucked out of God's hand ... but can walk away .. hmmm somehow i don't think he'll be letting us go .. and that's a pretty big hand .

Michael Collum said:

So we cannot be plucked out of God's hand ... but can walk away .. hmmm somehow i don't think he'll be letting us go .. and that's a pretty big hand .

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Amen.

Michael Collum said:

So we cannot be plucked out of God's hand ... but can walk away .. hmmm somehow i don't think he'll be letting us go .. and that's a pretty big hand .

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Once we come to know Christ, we have a choice daily, of sowing to the Spirit, or to the sinful nature. There are many verses that say we can walk away. If only people weren't so stubborn towards the word. You start believing that you can't fall away, then that is exactly when satan comes, to tempt and draw you away, and it is by our own choice, that someone falls away.

1 Corinthians 10:11-15
11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. 14 Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry. 15 I speak as to wise men; judge for yourselves what I say.

2 Peter 2:19-21
19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. 20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

Hebrews 10:26-30
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

allykelly07 said:

Once we come to know Christ, we have a choice daily, of sowing to the Spirit, or to the sinful nature. There are many verses that say we can walk away. If only people weren't so stubborn towards the word. You start believing that you can't fall away, then that is exactly when satan comes, to tempt and draw you away, and it is by our own choice, that someone falls away.

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What do you do with the following?

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

allykelly07 said:

I gave many verses on page 6, about OSAS being a false representation of salvation. It cannot be taken away, but we can walk away from it. Shown in many verses in scripture.

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I have to humbly disagree with your opinion on OSAS, which I call the Assurance of Salvation. I shared the following in my previous posts here and I have more to say on this issue in my post here (Scriptural references are included). In fact, I have had a lot to say on this issue in other threads debating the Assurance of Salvation. Therefore, I think what I said in my previous posts on this issue bears repeating in this thread. So, with that said. Here is what I wrote in one of my previous posts: Let us take a few moments to open up the Word of God and see what our Savior has said concerning our eternal security in Him. First of all, our Savior said that He gives His sheep eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of His hand (John 10:27-30). Next, He said that whoever hears His word and believes in God who sent Him has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life (John 5:24). Furthermore, He made it perfectly clear that all the Father gives Him will come to Him, and the one who comes to Him He will by no means cast out (John 6:37) nor shall He lose (John 6:39). He said those who believe in Him have everlasting life (John 6:47-51). He is the resurrection and life. The one who believes in Him will live, even though they die. And whoever lives by believing in Him will never die (John 11:25-26). And I wholeheartedly believe Him (v.26). I fully trust in Jesus Christ for my salvation.

Romans 8:35, 38-39 "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?...For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

If our salvation is conditional, then I must ask, when Christ died on the cross for our sins, which of our sins did He die for? If the sins we commit after coming to Christ can cause us to lose our salvation, clearly those sins were not covered by Jesus' blood and they were not nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14-15). And if the assurance of our salvation solely depends upon our abilities to maintain it until our death, our salvation cannot be by faith alone, which would be bluntly contrary to Scripture (John 1:12-13; Romans 3:21-26, 5:1-2, 5:8-11; 8:28-30, 10:9-10; 1 Corinthians 1:4-9, 1:30; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Galatians 1:3-5, 3:21-25; 5:1-6; Ephesians 1:7-10, 2:8-9; Titus 3:4-7; 1 John 5:9-13). Furthermore, if it is our sole responsibility to maintain our own salvation, then we could boast in heaven that we sustained our own salvation ourselves, which again, would be bluntly contrary to Scripture (Ephesians 2:8-9). If our salvation is conditional, we need to know exactly how and when we lose our salvation.

1 John 5:9-13 "9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."

* You can refer to three of my previous posts for more Scriptural references: Jesus' words, Scriptural References 1, Scriptural References 2 *

Dpiiiius said:

I came across this question while surfing the web on the topic of OSAS and it intrigues me :

"If a Christian is in bed with a prostitute committing adultery, and during the very act of intercourse a stray bullet from the gun of a drive-by shooter strikes him in the head and kills him instantly, will he go to heaven or hell?"

I was wondering what you guys thought .

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Immediately and forthwith to stand before God in Christ:

Romans 14:10
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Granted and presumably Christ is in heaven.

s

allykelly07 said:

I gave many verses on page 6, about OSAS being a false representation of salvation. It cannot be taken away, but we can walk away from it. Shown in many verses in scripture.

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That play on words almost mocks Jesus, if you think about it. Oh no, no one could take his disciples from his hand. That was his confident declaration....



..unless they DO IT TO HIM on their own.


So they are lost to him, after all, huh? Is that what he was saying? Was he holding out the possibility of them being lost for any reason? Seriously?

Notice the sentence structure. Jesus says that they were GIVEN to him, and then...what could happen afterwards? They couldn't be TAKEN from him. Given...Taken. That's the either-or that makes the point.

Had they not been given, but had come to him on their own, your idea about them changing their mind might make sense...and it would parallel the situation we've all been talking about of a person who accepts God's call, then (possibly) rejects it later on. But to say given at one time and then said "I guess not, after all" later on is disjointed. It is inconsistent.

CityOfGod said:

What do you do with the following?

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

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Acts 20:28-30
28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Matthew 7:15
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

A covenant is kept by two people, there is God, who is never changing, and there is us, who are feeble minded, and easily lead astray, if we are not on guard.

2 Peter 3:16-18
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

Be on guard that you may not fall from your secure position? That secure position in the hands of God? Be on guard that you may not fall from it.

allykelly07 said:

What do you do with the following?

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

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I don't think that you really addressed the verses that I quoted.

allykelly07 said:

A covenant is kept by two people, there is God, who is never changing, and there is us, who are feeble minded, and easily lead astray, if we are not on guard.

Be on guard that you may not fall from your secure position? That secure position in the hands of God? Be on guard that you may not fall from it.

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It is a common misnomer amongst those who do not understand OSAS that falling in this present life means eternal loss of salvation.

The blatantly obvious fact is that there is not one single named written example in the entire New Testament of any believer eternally losing their salvation. Not a single one.

It's therefore contrived and without example.

s

squint said:

It is a common misnomer amongst those who do not understand OSAS that falling in this present life means eternal loss of salvation.

The blatantly obvious fact is that there is not one single named written example in the entire New Testament of any believer eternally losing their salvation. Not a single one.

It's therefore contrived and without example.

s

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Amen.

Albion said:

That play on words almost mocks Jesus, if you think about it. Oh no, no one could take his disciples from his hand. That was his confident declaration....



..unless they DO IT TO HIM on their own.


So they are lost to him, after all, huh? Is that what he was saying? Was he holding out the possibility of them being lost for any reason? Seriously?

Notice the sentence structure. Jesus says that they were GIVEN to him, and then...what could happen afterwards? They couldn't be TAKEN from him. Given...Taken. That's the either-or that makes the point.

Had they not been given, but had come to him on their own, your idea about them changing their mind might make sense...and it would parallel the situation we've all been talking about of a person who accepts God's call, then (possibly) rejects it later on. But to say given at one time and then said "I guess not, after all" later on is disjointed. It is inconsistent.

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Well then I guess His sheep don't follow Him. Oh, wait, but since that promise of never being plucked out of the Father's hand in John 10:28 applies to the sheep that follow Him, maybe there is no such promise for us?

Albion said:

That play on words almost mocks Jesus, if you think about it. Oh no, no one could take his disciples from his hand. That was his confident declaration....



..unless they DO IT TO HIM on their own.


So they are lost to him, after all, huh? Is that what he was saying? Was he holding out the possibility of them being lost for any reason? Seriously?

Notice the sentence structure. Jesus says that they were GIVEN to him, and then...what could happen afterwards? They couldn't be TAKEN from him. Given...Taken. That's the either-or that makes the point.

Had they not been given, but had come to him on their own, your idea about them changing their mind might make sense...and it would parallel the situation we've all been talking about of a person who accepts God's call, then (possibly) rejects it later on. But to say given at one time and then said "I guess not, after all" later on is disjointed. It is inconsistent.

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Ok, so all the scriptures I posted, you throw out the window, because you think it is my own interpretation? How about all the scripture must work together, and I have been giving scriptures that make it all fit together. You just would like to believe that you are saved forever. Talk about the broad way, that is broader than broad. It is hard, and narrow, He does not say that for no reason, and the word doesn't say for no reason that we must continue in the faith. "If the salt of the earth (we) lose it's saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is good for nothing, except to be throw out, and trampled by men."

CityOfGod said:

I don't think that you really addressed the verses that I quoted.

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She hasn't. I hope she does and I hope she responds to my post here.

Go on and ignore all the verses that I have given. There are all these verses, and yet, you still haven't given me one, that literally says that we can never fall away? I have given verses that say it can happen, yet there are none that say it can't. Why do you all think the tons of warnings for true believers are there in scripture? Why does it say to CONTINUE in the faith that saves?

Nanopants said:

Well then I guess His sheep don't follow Him. Oh, wait, but since that promise of never being plucked out of the Father's hand in John 10:28 applies to the sheep that follow Him, maybe there is no such promise for us?

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I don't follow what you're trying to say.