Once saved always saved, or abundantly saved no matter what is always?

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So yes, I think I have an answer to the problem, of whether you can lose your salvation and for how long you can keep it, all in the one answer! We are abundantly saved! That means there is an abundance of ways to respond to salvation, right to the end! The concept of abundant salvation, is based on the verse "I have come that they may have life, and have it more abundantly". And it is literally too much to keep to yourself...

Every time a new convert enters the faith, there is rejoicing for this fact: they are predetermined to enjoy abundant salvation, right to the end. There is nothing left out, but so much left over. This is what we then enjoy, when we reach Heaven: the abundance of abundant salvation, rejoicing in one accord, with the Lord. It is all for the Lord, and He is abundantly welcoming of all our abundance!

The Devil, deceives, saying "it will run out", "it will be contradicted", there won't be enough to go around": all lies! He doesn't know Salvation, in any sense that can win it for him and only him, so he fights it - that is what God designed him to do. But God knows that even with perfect resistance, there will still be an abundance left over, for which to praise Him. God!

So yes, if you are feeling like "it's not all there" or "I am too tested" or "it's hard to care", remember what Jesus went through: He felt like His faith would be bankrupted, no matter what He did - but look now, He has everything the Father gave Him and more; the wager was won in Jesus' favour! Now we can hardly give it away.

I hope this has been of some encouragement.

 

[fhansen]

Hi there,

So yes, I think I have an answer to the problem, of whether you can lose your salvation and for how long you can keep it, all in the one answer! We are abundantly saved! That means there is an abundance of ways to respond to salvation, right to the end! The concept of abundant salvation, is based on the verse "I have come that they may have life, and have it more abundantly". And it is literally too much to keep to yourself...

Every time a new convert enters the faith, there is rejoicing for this fact: they are predetermined to enjoy abundant salvation, right to the end. There is nothing left out, but so much left over. This is what we then enjoy, when we reach Heaven: the abundance of abundant salvation, rejoicing in one accord, with the Lord. It is all for the Lord, and He is abundantly welcoming of all our abundance!

The Devil, deceives, saying "it will run out", "it will be contradicted", there won't be enough to go around": all lies! He doesn't know Salvation, in any sense that can win it for him and only him, so he fights it - that is what God designed him to do. But God knows that even with perfect resistance, there will still be an abundance left over, for which to praise Him. God!

So yes, if you are feeling like "it's not all there" or "I am too tested" or "it's hard to care", remember what Jesus went through: He felt like His faith would be bankrupted, no matter what He did - but look now, He has everything the Father gave Him and more; the wager was won in Jesus' favour! Now we can hardly give it away.

I hope this has been of some encouragement.

Jesus said they may have. Those who work out their salvation, who persevere to the end, who make their calling and election sure, who’re vigilant, who invest their talents, who remain in Christ, who live by the Spirit, who bear fruit, who love, etc will have life. And eternal life, life with God, is abundant, overflowing, unimaginable, sheer uncompromised goodness, the absolute and total fulfillment of all human desire. I hope this has been encouraging and instructive.

 

[Tolworth John]

have an answer to the problem, of whether you can lose your salvation

Have you never read what Jesus said in john6:39 that I shall loose None of those my Father has Given me but raise them up at the last day.

It is very clear, Jesus will not loose any one who is his.

 

[fhansen]

Have you never read what Jesus said in john6:39 that I shall loose None of those my Father has Given me but raise them up at the last day.

It is very clear, Jesus will not loose any one who is his.

Exactly. And He, alone, knows with perfect certainty who they are, whose names are written in the Book of Life and whose are not, while we cannot predict our own perseverance, which is why believers are instructed to persevere. As Scripture tells us there will be surprises-not all who think they're saved are or necessarily will be saved.

We know that He's trustworthy and true, and together with that we can have a healthy sense of assurance based on our response to Him, as to whether or not we're living like children of God and producing the kinds of fruits, with His help, that He requires of us.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi there,

So yes, I think I have an answer to the problem, of whether you can lose your salvation and for how long you can keep it, all in the one answer! We are abundantly saved! That means there is an abundance of ways to respond to salvation, right to the end! The concept of abundant salvation, is based on the verse "I have come that they may have life, and have it more abundantly". And it is literally too much to keep to yourself...

Every time a new convert enters the faith, there is rejoicing for this fact: they are predetermined to enjoy abundant salvation, right to the end. There is nothing left out, but so much left over. This is what we then enjoy, when we reach Heaven: the abundance of abundant salvation, rejoicing in one accord, with the Lord. It is all for the Lord, and He is abundantly welcoming of all our abundance!

The Devil, deceives, saying "it will run out", .

Matt 18
" I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his master, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he would repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Rom 11
you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.

 

[1213]

...It is very clear, Jesus will not loose any one who is his.

I think that is only part of the whole truth. Other part of the truth is that eternal life is for righteous and it is possible that person rejects God and Jesus, even after he has received the forgiveness of God. Forgiveness of sins (salvation) is not useful, if person rejects God and returns to sin.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

 

[Tolworth John]

I think that is only part of the whole truth. Other part of the truth is that eternal life is for righteous and it is possible that person rejects God and Jesus, even after he has received the forgiveness of God. Forgiveness of sins (salvation) is not useful, if person rejects God and returns to sin.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

How is it possible that Jesus can loose those God the Father has given to him?

 

[Danthemailman]

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

John 6:37 - Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out... 39 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day.

John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Philippians 1:6 - being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.

Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 18
" I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his master, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he would repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Rom 11
you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again.

And with that we have in John 15 "branches in Me" as Christ said - that are cut off and cast into the fire.

Matt 13 - the stony ground where one receives the gospel with great joy then later dies away

The Gal 5 case of those who are later "severed from Christ, fallen from grace"

Ezek 18 case of those fully saved then fully lost.

=========================

God who knows the future sees ahead of time how it will all end.. Yet His warnings in scripture make it clear that this is no arbitrary selection process on God's part "God is not partial" Rom 2:11 -- so then he sends the much-neglected and downsized warnings as noted in this post.

 

[1213]

How is it possible that Jesus can loose those God the Father has given to him?

Maybe it could be said that those who reject Jesus and God, were not really given. But, it is possible that person can reject God, because:

For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame.
Heb. 6:4-6

 

[BobRyan]

Maybe it could be said that those who reject Jesus and God, were not really given. But, it is possible that person can reject God, because:

For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame.
Heb. 6:4-6

Free will is funny that way.

 

[fhansen]

Free will is funny that way.

Yes, and removing man's will from the equation goes very far in gutting the gospel of its purpose, causing confusion in understanding man's role in it all, however small.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, and removing man's will from the equation goes very far in gutting the gospel of its purpose, causing confusion in understanding man's role in it all, however small.

in fact it leaves us with "arbitrary selection" given that Christ died "for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2 - then either God "saves all" or God "uses arbitrary selection" or some form of partiality to save some but not others - given that free will is not a factor.

 

[fhansen]

in fact it leaves us with "arbitrary selection" given that Christ died "for our sins and not for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2 - then either God "saves all" or God "uses arbitrary selection" or some form of partiality to save some but not others - given that free will is not a factor.

Yes, and of course they'll just defer to his sovereignty, meaning that we have no right to question whatever He does-which is true. But we do know that God is a God of reason and justice, and that He’s imparted rationality and a sense of justice within us, and we're not arguing over whether He’s sovereign or not, but over what, exactly His sovereign will is for man. And IMO the inclusion of man’s will in the process, and God desiring that man make the right choice without overpowering his will, is self-evident from Genesis on. And this makes too much sense to me as well, based on my experience of this life and of human capability for moral responsibility, combined with His revelation and how He’s worked in my own life.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, and of course they'll just defer to his sovereignty, meaning that we have no right to question whatever He does-which is true.

Interesting that "God is sovereign" as we all agree... but then when God sovereignly chooses to have a free-will system in His universe - He is "not sovereign"??? does not seem logical does it.

 

[Tolworth John]

Maybe it could be said that those who reject Jesus and God, were not really given. But, it is possible that person can reject God, because:

For concerning those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God for themselves again, and put him to open shame.
Heb. 6:4-6

Paul wrote in Romans about the strong baring with the weak.
I have to ask you how many posts do you see about people complaining, worrying that they are once saved always saved?

There are plenty of weak Christians posting here and elsewhere worrying whether they have lost there salvation, how do you help them?
Is it helpful for churches to teach that people can loose there salvation?

Can Christian loose thee salvation. No because salvation has nothing to do with you or me, if it did then we would have lost it.

Jesus talked about those who served, preached even did miracles yet his judgement on them was, " I never knew you! "

 

[1213]

...There are plenty of weak Christians posting here and elsewhere worrying whether they have lost there salvation, how do you help them?
Is it helpful for churches to teach that people can loose there salvation?
...

I think there is two parts in this issue. Person can’t lose salvation so that someone would take it. So, no one should fear that someone else takes it. But, it is possible that person himself rejects it and God.

If someone fears that he loses salvation, he should ask from himself, why do he fear so, is he going to reject God, or has he already done so. This leads to question, why, which could then lead to good solution and peace of mind.

I think it is not helpful for “Church” to give false contentment. And Church should never lie to give happy feelings for people. Lies are not from God and they are not good for anything.

 

[Tolworth John]

think it is not helpful for “Church” to give false contentment

Any caring Church is making it clear what a Christian is, the judgement of who is saved isn't ours it is Jesus's.
So it is not a case of giving false contentment or false assurance but more a case of helping those who are frighten they will loose what they cannot loose.