Once Saved Always Saved: Fact or Fiction?

[gigman7]

Provide the quote, Gigman7. You aren't being responsible or helpful to anyone with your responses.

The problem here is that it is not multiquoted.

 

[gigman7]

One doesn't have to say it to do it. Jesus tells us that we (those who have believed) are held by His Father and no one (meaning no person, including yourself) can snatch them out of His hand. That's security.


More disagreement with Jesus. John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Please note the enlarged word "has". It means WHEN one believes; not at some point future to one's belief.


And what verse actually says anything close to this?

Nope. I Still haven't disagreed with Jesus.

 

[pastor marty]

I make sure to polish my salvation at least once a day so as not to get a migraine over this umpire call, "he's safe !-No he's out."Here's what I think. There is nothing man can't screw-up with a big enough SIN.Once saved ? Great; show our Lord some respect & act like it and you can throw this question in the 'who cares bin'. I remind our Lord daily that He said "I will never leave U,nor forsake U." Staying worthy of that kind of love is a full time job..........marty

 

[DiscipleHeLovesToo]

in my understanding, the question isn't valid; i think the question should be:

can you completely and permanently reject God after being reborn in Christ?

salvation is a life long process that begins with spiritual rebirth. in spiritual rebirth, the old man is crucified, and a new creature is created; this is a life creating miracle - how can man cast out his reborn spirit and then resurrect his old dead one that was yielded to the devil? can the devil give life to the flesh? if the old spirit is dead, and the new spirit is cast out - what spirit will sustain the life of the body? who besides God can give life to a flesh body?

first the spirit is reborn, then the mind begins renewal with the word of God understood through fellowship with Him (or at least should); the will gradually changes to match God's; the emotions become more and more controllable instead of controlling - and thus the soul (mind, will and emotions) is gradually saved from destruction in this life by yielding to the leading of the Lord (which is why we call Him 'Lord' - we strive to submit to His leading rather than our own intellect and understanding)

now if someone never receives spiritual rebirth to begin with, but fakes it through pride or fear of other people's opinions, then there's nothing to reject in order to be lost...

Hebrews 6 gives several requirements that a Christian must meet before being 'eligible' to reject God completely:

v4 - once enlightened - this is a difficult phrase, it could refer to having truly been 'on fire for God'

v4 - tasted of the heavenly gift - another difficult phrase, but i believe this is referring to a sustained, intimate relationship with God

v4 - were made partakers of the Holy Ghost - another difficult phrase, but i think this means having operated in the gifts of the Holy Spirit (tongues, healing, teaching, pastoring, prophesying, etc.), and having done so in selfless love

v5 - tasted the good word of God - another difficult phrase, but i believe it means that someone must have received significant revelation knowledge of the scripture from the Holy Spirit

v5 - have tasted ... the powers of the world to come - another difficult phrase, but i believe this is referring to miracles of healing; raising from the dead, instantly calming great storms, feeding multitudes with a little boy's light lunch, turning water into wine, walking on water...

v6 - fall away - another difficult phrase, but i believe this means to become indifferent to God

v6 crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh - another difficult phrase, but i believe this is referring to actively and passionately hating God

v6 - put him (the Son of God) to an open shame - another difficult phrase, , but i believe this is referring to passionately trying to convince others to actively and passionately hate God

i don't know of anyone, even the giants of Christianity of the recent past, who meets or did meet all of these qualifications; not even the original apostles would be eligible based on these requirements.

but for me, the answer is in God's selfless love. God draws the ungodly to Him, the unbelieving, the ones who are often completely ignorant of their 'lost' state or His existence (on an intellectual level); He gave his only Son for them, and they receive the free gift of spiritual rebirth - but if they decide to stop believing Him, He will stop drawing them to Him? that just doesn't add up in the light of God's limitless love for those who are reborn in Christ. let's say you give your son's life as a ransom for someone who has zero respect for you, and then they begin to respond, and have a change of mind and reject you - would that stop you from trying to help them? if it would; wouldn't that minimize the sacrifice of your son's life? and what would it say about you as a father, who would sacrifice his son's life for a stranger and then get offended and let the stranger be destroyed anyway?

no doubt that won't convince some who are otherwise convinced; but please don't wake me up - it's working for me - i'll never be worried about falling away because i have faith that He won't stop drawing me to Him; He changes not, and He loves me more than i love me, and more than i ever will love Him even if i love Him with all that i am because His love is bigger than anything and everything about me - if you had a revelation of how much He loves you, you wouldn't be worried either

 

[gigman7]

Once saved ? Great; show our Lord some respect & act like it and you can throw this question in the 'who cares bin'.

That's a GREAT way to look at it!

 

[elbato]

I've been studying this question for a few months now. I was raised to think you could loose your salvation, but then I always thought that you weren't truly saved in the first place.
Jesus said "many will come to me on that day and say lord, lord.........." Jesus replies by saying "I never knew you". He doesn't say I knew before but not now. He clearly said " I NEVER knew you"

 

[SpiritRehab]

Overall, I believe the message of the whole Bible, is that you cannot loose your salvation. Yet there are 6 passages that cause me to wonder if I can loose my Salvation or if those passages are actually speaking of people forfeiting their chance at Salvation, before they are saved.

Matthew 6 - 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you; 15 but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 6 - 31 Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mark 8 - 38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of Me and of My words, in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him also shall the Son Of Man be ashamed, when He cometh in the glory of His Father, with the Holy Angels.

Luke 17 - 1 Then said He unto the disciples, It is impossible, but that offences will come, but woe unto him, through whom they come! 2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Revelation 14 - 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the Wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the Holy Angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 22 - 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now, there a many who believe the Holy Spirit will keep them from doing these things, but I wonder why the Holy Spirit doesn't keep them from sinning all sins, or even the smallest of sins. I wonder if He wants us to renew our minds, by learning & practicing His ways, to strengthen ourselves against the day of temptation through terrible persecution.

Anyway, I don't know the answer.
I believe Once Saved Always Saved,
but I wonder

 

[Lucky_Skunk]

Just curious......At what point are you not Christian enough, or not following Jesus enough, that you can lose your salvation? Are there any verses in the bible that tell us where we need to be at to retain our salvation?

 

[Lucky_Skunk]

Overall, I believe the message of the whole Bible, is that you cannot loose your salvation. Yet there are 6 passages that cause me to wonder if I can loose my Salvation or if those passages are actually speaking of people forfeiting their chance at Salvation, before they are saved.

Matthew 6 - 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you; 15 but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 6 - 31 Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mark 8 - 38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of Me and of My words, in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him also shall the Son Of Man be ashamed, when He cometh in the glory of His Father, with the Holy Angels.

Luke 17 - 1 Then said He unto the disciples, It is impossible, but that offences will come, but woe unto him, through whom they come! 2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Revelation 14 - 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the Wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the Holy Angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 22 - 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now, there a many who believe the Holy Spirit will keep them from doing these things, but I wonder why the Holy Spirit doesn't keep them from sinning all sins, or even the smallest of sins. I wonder if He wants us to renew our minds, by learning & practicing His ways, to strengthen ourselves against the day of temptation through terrible persecution.

Anyway, I don't know the answer.
I believe Once Saved Always Saved,
but I wonder

Do yourself a favor and read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Eternal-Security-Charles-Stanley/dp/0785264175

 

[fatherjimparker]

Do yourself a favor and read this:

http://www.amazon.com/Eternal-Security-Charles-Stanley/dp/0785264175

You believe wrong.

The Bible is replete with verses that can only be understood as teaching that you can indeed loose your salvation.

Here's some (again!!!)

(1) JN 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit,

15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 IF ANYONE DOES NOT REMAIN IN ME, HE IS LIKE A BRANCH THAT IS THROWN AWAY AND WITHERS; SUCH BRANCHES ARE PICKED UP, THROWN INTO THE FIRE AND BURNED.

(2) RO 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For IF GOD DID NOT SPARE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER.

22 CONSIDER THEREFORE THE KINDNESS AND STERNNESS OF GOD: STERNNESS TO THOSE WHO FELL, BUT KINDNESS TO YOU, PROVIDED THAT YOU CONTINUE IN HIS KINDNESS. OTHERWISE, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF.

(3)1CO 9:27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

(4) 1CO 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

(5) COL 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now HE HAS RECONCILED YOU BY CHRIST'S PHYSICAL BODY THROUGH DEATH TO PRESENT YOU HOLY IN HIS SIGHT, WITHOUT BLEMISH AND FREE FROM ACCUSATION-- 23 IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

(6) HEB 3:12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 WE HAVE COME TO SHARE IN CHRIST IF WE HOLD FIRMLY TILL THE END THE CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT FIRST.

(7) HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 IF THEY FALL AWAY, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting himto public disgrace.

(8) PHP 3:7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

PHP 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

(9)2PE 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

2PE 1:10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For IFYOU DO THESE THINGS, YOU WILL NEVER FALL,

(10) 2PE 2: 20 IF THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD BY KNOWING OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST AND ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED IN IT AND OVERCOME, THEY ARE WORSE OFF AT THE END THAN THEY WERE AT THE BEGINNING. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

(11) EZE 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.”

 

[Light of the East]

I don't believe that the believer's security in Christ is conditional. I believe in unconditional eternal security (and as a result, in its corollary OSAS).


Next?


It's not my "first rodeo" either. All of the verses quoted support the doctrine of eternal security.


You want me to? OK.

"Since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God."
1 Peter 1:23

• Now that we've been born again, we cannot fall from grace or perish.

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."
John 6:37

• Christ will never cast out those who come to Him, bound through the Father's will since the beginning of time (Ephesians 1:3-14). Those who come genuinely will never lose their faith or salvation.

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand."
John 10:27-29

• Not even we can free ourselves from Christ once sanctified and redeemed by His holy blood.

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?"
Romans 8:35

• Surely we ourselves cannot separate ourselves from the love of Christ once saved. Why?

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."
Romans 11:29

"If we are faithless, he remains faithful - for he cannot deny himself."
2 Timothy 2:13

I wonder then how you would explain the verses in the Bible which speak of the believer standing before the throne of Chirst to see if they receive eternal life or eternal death. If OSAS makes sense, then those verses are silly.

For instance, Romans 2: 5-10 shows us the Judgment Seat of Christ with both those who have done good and those who have done evil. Verse 7 states that only those who have done good shall receive eternal life. Why are the believers even there if the issue is the giving out of eternal life? According to OSAS, that issue is already settled for them.

OSAS also violates the principles of a covenant relationship. In a covenant relationship, the covenant can be broken by unfaithfulness and the relationship ended.

And finally, the Catholic Church, which the Bible states is the "pillar and ground of truth" has stated that this is a false doctrine, so everything else aside, that settles it. The Church has spoken.

 

[JLB777]

The angels were not in a "saved eternal state" because "saved" generally means "redeemed" (from a previously fallen state). All your argument shows is that created beings can fall (and must be saved). This does not show that unrighteous beings saved by God can lose that salvation.

Angels are sons of God.

Plain and simple.

We become sons of God, being born of God, through faith in Christ Jesus.

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.1 John 5:1

and again

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26


When we are resurrected we will have achieved what angels have now in reality, which we have "by faith".


But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-35


So, if God did not spare the angels , His sons, but cast them down to hell...


So just because you are sons of God by faith, doesn't mean the race is over and that you will not be tested.

The mark of the beast is coming soon, to a country near you.



JLB

 

[gigman7]

You believe wrong.

The Bible is replete with verses that can only be understood as teaching that you can indeed loose your salvation.

Here's some (again!!!)

(1) JN 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit,

15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 IF ANYONE DOES NOT REMAIN IN ME, HE IS LIKE A BRANCH THAT IS THROWN AWAY AND WITHERS; SUCH BRANCHES ARE PICKED UP, THROWN INTO THE FIRE AND BURNED.

(2) RO 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For IF GOD DID NOT SPARE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER.

22 CONSIDER THEREFORE THE KINDNESS AND STERNNESS OF GOD: STERNNESS TO THOSE WHO FELL, BUT KINDNESS TO YOU, PROVIDED THAT YOU CONTINUE IN HIS KINDNESS. OTHERWISE, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF.

(3)1CO 9:27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

(4) 1CO 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

(5) COL 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now HE HAS RECONCILED YOU BY CHRIST'S PHYSICAL BODY THROUGH DEATH TO PRESENT YOU HOLY IN HIS SIGHT, WITHOUT BLEMISH AND FREE FROM ACCUSATION-- 23 IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

(6) HEB 3:12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 WE HAVE COME TO SHARE IN CHRIST IF WE HOLD FIRMLY TILL THE END THE CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT FIRST.

(7) HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 IF THEY FALL AWAY, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting himto public disgrace.

(8) PHP 3:7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

PHP 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

(9)2PE 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

2PE 1:10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For IFYOU DO THESE THINGS, YOU WILL NEVER FALL,

(10) 2PE 2: 20 IF THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD BY KNOWING OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST AND ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED IN IT AND OVERCOME, THEY ARE WORSE OFF AT THE END THAN THEY WERE AT THE BEGINNING. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

(11) EZE 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.”

The way you are reading this, we are all going to hell.

 

[Tellastory]

I've been studying this question for a few months now. I was raised to think you could loose your salvation, but then I always thought that you weren't truly saved in the first place.
Jesus said "many will come to me on that day and say lord, lord.........." Jesus replies by saying "I never knew you". He doesn't say I knew before but not now. He clearly said " I NEVER knew you"

Overall, I believe the message of the whole Bible, is that you cannot loose your salvation. Yet there are 6 passages that cause me to wonder if I can loose my Salvation or if those passages are actually speaking of people forfeiting their chance at Salvation, before they are saved.

Matthew 6 - 14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you; 15 but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Matthew 6 - 31 Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mark 8 - 38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of Me and of My words, in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him also shall the Son Of Man be ashamed, when He cometh in the glory of His Father, with the Holy Angels.

Luke 17 - 1 Then said He unto the disciples, It is impossible, but that offences will come, but woe unto him, through whom they come! 2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Revelation 14 - 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 the same shall drink of the wine of the Wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the Holy Angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 22 - 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now, there a many who believe the Holy Spirit will keep them from doing these things, but I wonder why the Holy Spirit doesn't keep them from sinning all sins, or even the smallest of sins. I wonder if He wants us to renew our minds, by learning & practicing His ways, to strengthen ourselves against the day of temptation through terrible persecution.

Anyway, I don't know the answer.
I believe Once Saved Always Saved,
but I wonder

By His grace & by His help, I know the answer.

At the pre tribulational rapture event, not all saved believers will be found abiding in Him to be received by the Bridegroom for the Marriage Supper held in His honour. They will be reprobates; disqualified, castaways, and thus left behind to be received later on as vessels unto dishonour in His House for not looking to Him for help to discern & depart from iniquity ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ) in getting themselves ready & that includes former believers, because though they deny Him and they will be denined, yet He abides in them still, and cannot deny Himself which is why they shall be received later on.

For those that apply Matthew 7:13-27 as meaning "professing believers" that were never saved, Paul said he was at risk of being a castaway in running that race ( 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 ) and so when Jesus is denying them in Matthew 7:21-23, it was because of them being workers of iniquity wherein any religious work or carnal work that denies Him, Titus 1:16, they will be denied by Him ( 2 Timothy 2:12 ) but even if they became unbelievers, He cannot deny Himself ( Timothy 2:13 ) which is why the call to even former believers to go before that throne of grace for help in discerning the lies that turned them away from the faith in order to find the answers they seek to return to their first love so that they may obtain the "eternal glory" that comes with their salvation in being received as a vessel unto honour in His House to attend the Marriage Supper to be held in His honour as we trust Him & place our confidence in Him to finish His work in us and thus finishing the race wgere the crowns we receive is really His crowning achievements in us. So God will be judging His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) and what we build on that foundation will be judged ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) but the foundation remains which is why He will still be abiding in those He denies for being in iniquity and thus left behind to be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonour in His House. So run that race as saved believers, but run by faith in Him as your Good Shepherd in using the KJV as the meat of His words to discern good & evil by them in keeping the faith which is the good fight. Philippians 1:6-11 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25 & 1 John 3:3

 

[gigman7]

I wonder then how you would explain the verses in the Bible which speak of the believer standing before the throne of Chirst to see if they receive eternal life or eternal death. If OSAS makes sense, then those verses are silly.

Not true. Don't get saved, don't go to heaven.

 

[JLB777]

I've been studying this question for a few months now. I was raised to think you could loose your salvation, but then I always thought that you weren't truly saved in the first place.
Jesus said "many will come to me on that day and say lord, lord.........." Jesus replies by saying "I never knew you". He doesn't say I knew before but not now. He clearly said " I NEVER knew you"

That's a good example of someone who was never saved.


Here are some scriptures that warn us about being saved, then losing the salvation through unbelief or disobeying the Gospel.

20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 1 Peter 2:20-21

and again

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
Hebrews 3:12-14


JLB

 

[JLB777]

At the pre tribulational rapture event, not all saved believers will be found abiding in Him to be received by the Bridegroom for the Marriage Supper held in His honour. They will be reprobates; disqualified, castaways, and thus left behind to be received later on as vessels unto dishonour in His House for not looking to Him for help to discern & depart from iniquity ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ) in getting themselves ready & that includes former believers, because though they deny Him and they will be denined, yet He abides in them still, and cannot deny Himself which is why they shall be received later on.

No such thing as a pretrib Rapture.


JLB

 

[gigman7]

If the ones who are saying you can lose your salvation were right, we'd all go to hell. That's all there is to it. Thank God when we get saved, we are forgiven for our future sins as well as our past sins. That's the only way we can get into heaven.

 

[MikeEnders]

Hebrews 10:26: "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins." The early Christians universally believed that this passage referred to persons who had been saved, had continued to sin, and had thereby lost their salvation.

Sorry but that's absolutely false and I really wish people wouldn't not make up these false facts to back their theology.

A) Outside of the NT we do no have very many early church Christian writers and few even addressed this verse so theres just no truthful way to claim we know "universally" what they believed in regard to this passage
B) John the apostle would completely disagree with your assessment

"No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God."
I john 3:9

The verb is in the continuous participle in 1 John 3 as it is in Hebrews 10:26. That is when you are born of god you cannot live in constant sin (even if you trip and fall you ask forgiveness get back up stop sinning and trip again). For John to say you cannot continue sinning and Hebrews to say you can and even willfully indicates they are not talking both about born again believers.

What we have forgotten is that the Lord and the early church expected the wheat would continue with the tares. Rather than either accepting or rejecting Christ the parable of the sower makes clear you can receive with great Joy but no root and end up lost bearing no fruit. Someone can get a lot of enlightenment and even seem to be a believer but not be.

 

[msgd1025]

Colossians 1:21-23. OSAS is false.