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None of these verses says anything about loss of salvation. So, where are the verses that support your theories?
First, you've never proven that salvation continues ONLY AS LONG as faith continues. What verses say that?
Second, since eternal life IS a gift of God, along with justification, and God's gifts are irrevocable, that's prove enough.
What hasn't been proven is that Paul didn't include eternal life from Rom 11:29 where he wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable.
It doesn't follow that since there are no explicit verses in the NT about losing the Holy Spirit, therefore one cannot lose the holy spirit.
It doesn't follow that since we're marked for the day of redemption, we cannot be unmarked.
If we're not talking about physical seals, the rational behind thinking sealed means forever shut, done deal, is thrown out the window. You're begging the question.
If salvation includes regeneration, being born again, and being a new creature; that all goes away through apostasy.
The following describes a person who was regenerate:
Hebrews 6:4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come,6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
If I'm understanding you correctly, you think "gift of faith" is not in Romans, and faith is a gift from God. Your belief that God's gifts are irrevocable are limited to the epistle of Romans, and gifts mentioned outside of Romans are revocable? Such as faith? I still see no reason to think that God's gifts to us cannot be lost. If we discard a gift, the giver of that gift hasn't really taken it back, but it is discarded nonetheless.
Since you're limiting Romans 11:29 to apply only to the book of Romans, why not narrow it down even more?
Specifically to the context of Romans 11 itself. If you read Romans 11 you'll notice that the verse we've mentioned refers to the salvation of Israel.
In terms of faith through salvation:
Pual Speaking to the Gentiles about the Jews:
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off
What do you believe Paul refers to when he says we can be cut off?
I think it's obvious: salvation.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Secondly, the gift is eternal life in Christ Jesus.
John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
If we choose not to abide in Christ, we don't have the guarantee of salvation. Salvation is only for those in Christ, not those who depart from him.
Lastly: Those who do not have faith will be sent to hell,
Rev 21:
5And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” 6And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. 7The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.8But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
It doesn't say anywhere in the bible that you can be saved while denying Christ. It actually says, the faithless will go to hell.
FURTHERMORE:
1 John 3:15
15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Therefore, a once saved person who begins to hate his brother does not have eternal life.
The fact that you would ask and state this is proof positive that your system of understanding is totally unsystematic........................Let's settle this again for everybody.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:29
Does the words eternal life appear in this scripture ?
If they don't then you are not teaching what is biblical. JLB
Good heavens!! Of course it follows. In fact, there are NO verses anywhere about losing the Holy Spirit in the NT. Jesus Himself promised the Holy Spirit would come and be with us forever.
If one reads the entire context, we are marked or sealed with a promise. Is your view that God breaks His promises? HUH?
Very good. This sums up this whole thread.
Or as the NLT states, "For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn."
Your "theory" refuses to recognize the basic foundation precepts of faith.
We are not saved as if we have obtained the salvation we are hoping for, but rather we are saved by faith...
I guess no one has ever explained this simple elementary truth to you before.
All the lexicon Greek gymnastics isn't going to change the definition of faith.
Uh . . . it's the church catholic [with lowercase "c"]. Also known as the "communion of saints," "the bride of Christ," "the Christian Church," "the universal church," "the body of all believers," "the flock of God," &c., &c. It's the collection of all living believers in Christ on Earth, also known within my tradition as the elect [all the saved].
I do believe that believers can continue to believe. But I also believe what Jesus specifically said about the second soil; "they believed FOR A WHILE, and in time of testing, fell away". Why shouldn't everyone believe what He said?
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
Romans 11:29
Hi Gordon - Yes I firmly believe the King James Bible is....it - all others are counterfiet - tough but that's life. I didn't mean the others are there only to support heresy but that you can find another version that will support certain heresies.Hi, Are you saying that you believe the King James version of the Bible is the only true word of God, and that all other translation are simply there to support what you call others heresy?
Hail Mary....
by that rationale a cult that is one for a thousand years is better than one that is one for the last 50. Truth is determined by whats in the Bible not by a historically verifiable and proven corrupt institution be it Catholic or protestant.
It says he will never take back the gift of salvation.
This is 100% incorrect. Water baptism is only a followup to salvation.
Most of the time baptism is mentioned in the Bible it is talking about spiritual baptism.
The one whose version of history most appeals to you?Well, yessir, exactly! If I read that the Apostles did things a certain way, and then I read that your new group has denied and changed all that, just whom do you think I am going to follow?
Paul said -19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21 those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Paul warns the Corinthians and Ephesians of the same thing. Jesus established the meaning of "inherit the kingdom of God".JLB
Uh . . . it's the church catholic [with lowercase "c"]. Also known as the "communion of saints," "the bride of Christ," "the Christian Church," "the universal church," "the body of all believers," "the flock of God," &c., &c. It's the collection of all living believers in Christ on Earth, also known within my tradition as the elect [all the saved].
I should also note that the Eastern Orthodox also were called catholic by the beginning of the second century.
The one whose version of history most appeals to you?
For many people, that's the one that fills in all the blanks and has an answer for everything in the past, whether or not the answers are correct. There is a certain satisfaction in feeling certain and a certain insecurity that comes with having to admit that some things in the course of human events actually are not 'black or white.'
Well, yessir, exactly! If I read that the Apostles did things a certain way,
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