Once saved,always saved ?¿?

[Angeldove97]

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[plummerak]

I believe there is only one way and one way only to lose your salvation. And that is to commit the unforgivible sin Jesus talks about in Matthew 12: 30-32.
Honestly I can't see true beleivers doing this and is backed by many scriptures. There are many scrpitures that say so, including 1 Peter 2.
So there is a way, I just can't see true believers doing it.

 

[Cotjones]

I believe there is only one way and one way only to lose your salvation. And that is to commit the unforgivible sin Jesus talks about in Matthew 12: 30-32.
Honestly I can't see true beleivers doing this and is backed by many scriptures. There are many scrpitures that say so, including 1 Peter 2.
So there is a way, I just can't see true believers doing it.

Who could see the head angel in heaven falling? but it happened.

This false sense of security and entitlement is Satan's entire battle strategy. Convincing people that they are fine, that they are safe. That "Its OK if you commit a small sin like lying to your wife, once saved, always saved"

The penalty for sin is death, but sin can be forgiven except that unforgivable sin. Doesn't mean that this specific sin is the only way to lose your salvation. You can be as saved as you can be until you are 30, but if you then start worshiping Satan till you die you simply won't go to heaven.

Salvation doesn't turn you into a robot. It's not like once you are saved you can no longer sin. That's the thing about free will, it doesn't matter what choice we SHOULD make, we can always make a different one.

Adam and Eve were perfect, they fell.

Judas was a disciple! He fell as much as one can fall.

The only time it is useful to say something like "he wouldn't have fell if he was truly saved" is when you are God. We are not, we don't know what choices we will make and paths we will follow in the coming days. To describe whether the person was saved by how they end up is utterly pointless. By that logic, no one can truly say that they are saved, because they might do something tomorrow that would suggest that they are not.

 

[plummerak]

Who could see the head angel in heaven falling? but it happened.

This false sense of security and entitlement is Satan's entire battle strategy. Convincing people that they are fine, that they are safe. That "Its OK if you commit a small sin like lying to your wife, once saved, always saved"

The penalty for sin is death, but sin can be forgiven except that unforgivable sin. Doesn't mean that this specific sin is the only way to lose your salvation. You can be as saved as you can be until you are 30, but if you then start worshiping Satan till you die you simply won't go to heaven.

Salvation doesn't turn you into a robot. It's not like once you are saved you can no longer sin. That's the thing about free will, it doesn't matter what choice we SHOULD make, we can always make a different one.

Adam and Eve were perfect, they fell.

Judas was a disciple! He fell as much as one can fall.

The only time it is useful to say something like "he wouldn't have fell if he was truly saved" is when you are God. We are not, we don't know what choices we will make and paths we will follow in the coming days. To describe whether the person was saved by how they end up is utterly pointless. By that logic, no one can truly say that they are saved, because they might do something tomorrow that would suggest that they are not.

I am totally lost at what your saying about my posting. Are you saying you can or cannot lose your salvation?


I am with you when you say only God can say who is and who is not saved. We won't know until we get there, Praise God!
But I don't know where you think that I said for one minute about a false sense of security. I think you need to go read Matthew 12 the whole chapter to put it in perspective for you.

But from what I read of scripture, the only way a true beleiver would lose his eternity with God is if he/she commits a sin that is unforgivable. And that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Like Jesus says in Matthew. Denying the existance of the Holy Spirit and knowing the truth, well for one, I can't think this could happen when someone's election and calling is sure. But I guess it could happen. That is why I said that would be the only way, IMHO.
No one knows where Judas is, for all we know he is forgiven and in Heaven as we speak. Just like Peter, etc.
Also when you say that you can worship God and then satan for the last part of your life and still be saved is just plain crazy. That person was never saved in the first place according to what I've read in the Word of God. So back to my first comment. God is the only one who knows who is truly saved and not.
But He did give us minds to give opinion and share our thoughts. And that' s what I just did.

 

[Cotjones]

I am totally lost at what your saying about my posting. Are you saying you can or cannot lose your salvation?


I am with you when you say only God can say who is and who is not saved. We won't know until we get there, Praise God!
But I don't know where you think that I said for one minute about a false sense of security. I think you need to go read Matthew 12 the whole chapter to put it in perspective for you.

But from what I read of scripture, the only way a true beleiver would lose his eternity with God is if he/she commits a sin that is unforgivable. And that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Like Jesus says in Matthew. Denying the existance of the Holy Spirit and knowing the truth, well for one, I can't think this could happen when someone's election and calling is sure. But I guess it could happen. That is why I said that would be the only way, IMHO.
No one knows where Judas is, for all we know he is forgiven and in Heaven as we speak. Just like Peter, etc.
Also when you say that you can worship God and then satan for the last part of your life and still be saved is just plain crazy. That person was never saved in the first place according to what I've read in the Word of God. So back to my first comment. God is the only one who knows who is truly saved and not.
But He did give us minds to give opinion and share our thoughts. And that' s what I just did.

I said the Satan worshiper WOULD NOT be in heaven. And you say you don't understand my point, but you are illustrating it perfectly.

How can you say that that person was never saved in the first place? You are implying that once you have "achieved salvation" you are no longer capable of making a decision like that? I believe that is just plain crazy. Free will allows the human mind to know 100% exactly what choice he should make, and chose against it anyway.

So the situation is like this: If you can say, "oh he wasn't saved to begin with, and that's why he worships Satan," then you can say that about anyone who believes they are saved. There is thus, no use in saying you can't lose salvation, the only thing that does is create a false sense of security. back to our Satan worshiper, do you think that for those first 30 years, he didn't believe he was saved?

Essentially we are all in his shoes, we all believe we are saved, but it could end up that tomorrow we find out that "apparently we weren't to begin with."

So how is it useful, or even wise to say "once saved always saved?" It's deception, deception used explicitly by Satan numerous times according to the scriptures.

 

[kql314]

Yes, I'm sure this has been covered on various CF threads. But different people will have different answers.
Your first question- in my experience and talking with various ND Christians, I'd say its probably 60%-75% of them believe the "once saved, always saved" doctrine- that one cannot lose their salvation.

I think that is what we all WANT to believe, and that would be better (for us sinners), but personally I find that hard to accept. I, like others, believe salvation and sanctification is more of a journey. You can pick verses of the Bible to back up your claim on the different sides of this- I've found.

Its much easier to evangelize and to bring in new people into your Church if you can claim that all you have to do is say 1 prayer, 1 time, and then you are "all set" for the rest of your Earthly life. Regardless of anything else you may do or believe or say for the rest of your time here.

Tough topic- won't get a true answer. My answer might be different than yours here, etc.
Good luck...

 

[plummerak]

I said the Satan worshiper WOULD NOT be in heaven. And you say you don't understand my point, but you are illustrating it perfectly.

How can you say that that person was never saved in the first place? You are implying that once you have "achieved salvation" you are no longer capable of making a decision like that? I believe that is just plain crazy. Free will allows the human mind to know 100% exactly what choice he should make, and chose against it anyway.

So the situation is like this: If you can say, "oh he wasn't saved to begin with, and that's why he worships Satan," then you can say that about anyone who believes they are saved. There is thus, no use in saying you can't lose salvation, the only thing that does is create a false sense of security. back to our Satan worshiper, do you think that for those first 30 years, he didn't believe he was saved?

Essentially we are all in his shoes, we all believe we are saved, but it could end up that tomorrow we find out that "apparently we weren't to begin with."

So how is it useful, or even wise to say "once saved always saved?" It's deception, deception used explicitly by Satan numerous times according to the scriptures.

If I've illistrated your point, why the back lash?

Look, our realtionship with God is a personal one. One knows exactly where they are going and where they always stand, thanks to the Holy Spirit.
If you are saying one could have doubt in their relationship or their sercurity in salvation,those feelings might be true, but those feelings shouldnt shape knowledge in the Word of God. Confusion is not from God, there is nothing confusing about God.
I have just been on this forum for a few weeks, and I find that arguing back and forth about stuff like this is kind of foolish. No offense, but it seems you like to argue this stuff, not satisfied with anyones answer.
If this is something I can help in prayer, or maybe we can talk, I am here, please let me know. Otherwise have a great weekend!