"On White Privilege"

[SummerMadness]

I did...I didn't see that in the study at all. They quite clearly summarized their findings...and I quoted it for you twice now.

I think you may be confusing the notion that blacks do get harsher sentences with the notion that they're more likely to get harsher sentences.

This is besides the point though...I provided the study that i said I would. It shows, like I said, that race is a factor...but not who that factor favors. The article also does a great job explaining why you can't show discrimination....because there are too many factors to control for. You can't control for things like courtroom behavior or attorney skill.

You said that studies do control for enough things to show discrimination.

Do you ever find your study?

In a previous post, you made an statement saying "without reading the study," but it's important to read the study to understand their point about uncertainty. The uncertainty about whether they can determine who is favored is only made because they can't rule out a theoretical judge, where "unobservable case characteristics dictated that an unbiased racial gap in sentencing would be 50 percent. In this case, heterogeneity in the race gap between 20 and 50 percent would indicate a great deal of favoritism toward African Americans, not discrimination." The study is not saying there is no favorability, they just cannot rule it out with their given study, to which they propose ways to address this. In addition, the heterogeneity of their distribution shows that there is an increase in the racial gap when changing the percentile of judges, this gap should not increase, that's the point.

 

[The Cadet]

Men overwhelmingly more likely to be imprisoned than women = female privilege doesn't exist you (redacted) MRA.

The fact that a group is privileged in one regards does not negate their privilege in other regards. Women are less likely to be imprisoned? Yes, that's an issue, and we need to examine why that is and think about potential solutions. I think if you were to press most rational feminists on this, they'd agree with you. This does not negate male privilege in fields such as hiring, rape, and the like.

 

[nightflight]

The fact that a group is privileged in one regards does not negate their privilege in other regards. Women are less likely to be imprisoned? Yes, that's an issue, and we need to examine why that is and think about potential solutions. I think if you were to press most rational feminists on this, they'd agree with you. This does not negate male privilege in fields such as hiring, rape, and the like.

LOL @ "rational feminists"

Good luck with that!

 

[The Cadet]

LOL @ "rational feminists"

Good luck with that!

You'd be surprised how many you meet when your entire experience of feminism isn't taken from /r/redpill.

 

[pakicetus]

LOL @ "rational feminists"

Good luck with that!

Most feminists really are rational. You're just much more likely to hear about irrational feminists because someone making outlandish claims is more interesting than someone making reasonable ones (most of the time).

 

[Ken-1122]

Care to explicate this further? Colour me curious.

Are you speaking geographically, i.e. a country with a white minority is more likely to have disadvantaged whites, or do you mean where you look as in different aspects of life in the US?

They have
*Black Actors Guild
*Black Beauty pageants
*Black caucus for those in congress
*Black history month
For those who are successful there is more of an “attaboy” by fellow black people.

There has been many instances when black people have seen the business I run and they express pride, surprise, and appreciation of a black man involved in a business usually dominated by whites

There has been times I’ve had gatherings/parties with friends and they may bring someone who doesn’t know me, and they will often say something like “I like to see my people living this way” after noticing my house and the neighborhood of which I live. If I were white, nobody would say that. If I were white nobody would appreciate me running the type of business I run.

For those who are not successful; there is understanding, and a plethora of excuses society allows for your failures; from institutional racism,to Biased SAT tests. White failures aren’t given any excuses.

Then there are those like:
*Rodney King who gets hyped up on PCP, and attacks the police officers, then gets a beat down
*Michael Brown who reaches inside a police car which lead to his death,
*Tamir Rice armed with a fake gun with the orange safety seal removed to make it look real,was pointing it at people. When the cops showed up and he tried pointing it at them he was killed
*Eric Garner who died of a heart attack after resisting arrest by police.

These people were made martyrs by other black people and their deaths lead to protests, public outrage, and riots. If white people died at the hands of cops while committing such crimes, nobody would care.

Then there are politicians like Marion Barry who was caught smoking crack on video, and went to prison on federal drug charges was reelected after he got out.

Do you think a white politician would have gotten reelected under such circumstances? HMF No! His career would have been over.


Those are a few, but I think you get the picture.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Of course. This is called intersectionality (overlapping or intersecting social identities and related systems of oppression, domination, or discrimination).

I don't think that means we should ignore the racial component, though?

the racial component has never been ignored; that's all anyone ever talks about. There are other issues involved that need addressing as well and if some of these other issues were addressed, it would do a lot to change things that need to be changed

Ken

 

[nightflight]

Most feminists really are rational. You're just much more likely to hear about irrational feminists because someone making outlandish claims is more interesting than someone making reasonable ones (most of the time).

Red Pill. Hit Me. Hard.

 

[Paidiske]

the racial component has never been ignored; that's all anyone ever talks about. There are other issues involved that need addressing as well and if some of these other issues were addressed, it would do a lot to change things that need to be changed

So what do you see as the most urgent of the other issues? Perhaps you'll find we have common cause there.

 

[The Cadet]

They have
*Black Actors Guild
*Black Beauty pageants
*Black caucus for those in congress
*Black history month
For those who are successful there is more of an “attaboy” by fellow black people.

Why do you think these things exist?

For those who are not successful; there is understanding, and a plethora of excuses society allows for your failures; from institutional racism,to Biased SAT tests.

This would be a valid complaint if these excuses weren't valid. Yes, white people don't get the same excuses, because they don't have the same problems.

 

[Ken-1122]

The biggest problem facing a black family trying to buy a home is thug life, not the lenders pushing them into loans that they would not give a white family or not giving them a loan at all?

No, that sounds like an issue of low credit scores.

The problem a black job applicant faces is thug life, not the discrimination based on his first name?

It could be both. If thug life has you presenting yourself in an interview in a way that doesn’t seem in line with the job you are applying for, then thug life is a problem

The problem a black person faces when answering an ad online for a room share is thug life, not the people who deny their request due to their name or skin color?

Again; perhaps both. I thug life gives you the appearance of being a threat, thug life is a problem

The problem a black person faces with unlawful and unjustified stops by the police is thug life, not the racist practices of the police?

If thug life has you wearing tatoos, and clothing representing neighborhood gangs, then thug life is a problem

The problem of police exchanging racist, homophobic and sexist tweets is thug life?

that happens in all lines of work

I disagree that racism is a problem that will not go away.

Sorry, but as long as people have a choice, there will always be those who will choose to hate.

However, there is a sense of irony when black people are told to take personal responsibility, like I must take responsibility for someone else treating me unfairly because of their perception of what someone else (not me) has done or based on what they've seen on TV?

There is nothing wrong with fighting racism, but it shouldn’t stop there; there is a lot of personal responsibility that is needed as well.


Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

So what do you see as the most urgent of the other issues? Perhaps you'll find we have common cause there.

Glamorizing thug life, and a breakdown of the family structure.

Ken

 

[Ken-1122]

Why do you think these things exist?

It has more to do with history. But thats not the point, the point is that they exist and it can be seen as an advantage.

This would be a valid complaint if these excuses weren't valid. Yes, white people don't get the same excuses, because they don't have the same problems.

But often they are not valid.

Ken

 

[Paidiske]

Glamorizing thug life, and a breakdown of the family structure.

Ken

By "thug life" do you mean gang culture? Or just crime in general?

I don't know, I don't see a lot of glamorising of either of those things, except perhaps in contexts where people are in poverty and desperate, and don't see alternatives. Would providing alternative pathways out of poverty and desperation take some of the shine off the "glamour"?

 

[Gadarene]

You'd be surprised how many you meet when your entire experience of feminism isn't taken from /r/redpill.

I've never been there before, and still most of the feminists I meet believe in crackpottery.

Then again, most feminists or pro-feminists will just go HURR DURR MRA than actually face criticism of their sacred movement.

 

[Gadarene]

The fact that a group is privileged in one regards does not negate their privilege in other regards.

No, stop there. That wasn't my point. My point is that the exact same standard used to claim white people are privileged within the prison system is completely flipped when it comes to how men and women are treated within the prison system. The group that gets kid glove treatment isn't considered privileged. In fact, most feminists laugh at the very idea of "female privilege".

This is why I have no time for the subject. As a white male my experience of it is a malleable concept that is reworked whenever the group I am part of needs to be blamed for something. Our problems can't be addressed by the privilege framework that currently exists. How does something like this, for example, make any kind of sense within the framework of "white men are privileged"?

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/01/06/poor-boys-attend-university_n_8921854.html

When a UK civil servant can admit that white men are falling behind at something that's worth taking note of!

See, when you have a theory that doesn't work, then you discard it. Then again, I studied a real science, not social "science".

Women are less likely to be imprisoned? Yes, that's an issue, and we need to examine why that is and think about potential solutions. I think if you were to press most rational feminists on this, they'd agree with you.

 

[Gadarene]

Then there are those like:
....
*Tamir Rice armed with a fake gun with the orange safety seal removed to make it look real,was pointing it at people. When the cops showed up and he tried pointing it at them he was killed
...
*Eric Garner who died of a heart attack after resisting arrest by police.

These people were made martyrs by other black people and their deaths lead to protests, public outrage, and riots. If white people died at the hands of cops while committing such crimes, nobody would care.

I don't know if I agree with all of your answers, but on this one I do. There are plenty of examples of white youths being killed in similar circumstances, and their names haven't been turned into mantras - assuming anyone's heard of them.

 

[Gadarene]

Most feminists really are rational. You're just much more likely to hear about irrational feminists because someone making outlandish claims is more interesting than someone making reasonable ones (most of the time).

They also tend to be in the media, politics etc. It's nice that there is apparently this mass of awesome rank and file feminists, but they seem to have no sway whatsoever within the wider movement.

 

[Paidiske]

How does something like this, for example, make any kind of sense within the framework of "white men are privileged"?

That's a good question. What's going on with those working class boys? Are they being encouraged into trades not traditionally taken up by women in high numbers (plumbers, electricians etc)? I'd genuinely like to know.

Clearly for those guys, something else is in play, and the fact that they can be identified by class brings us back around to intersectionality, and the need to look at other social and economic factors.

However... that doesn't change the fact that women face many disadvantages. I know it, you know it, we all know it from basic life experience, don't we? If you don't, I'll be happy to tell you how I got kicked out of college when I was pregnant, and ask how many men that happens to...

 

[Gadarene]

Put there by guilty consciousness, and the hope that if a noticably black man is elected president, all of the minorities (especially black people) will stop complaining about injustices and "get over it" even if nothing has changed. Minorities will ignore the injustice going on currently against them, and focus on the being happy just because a black guy is president (whether or not he is the best candidate - black people should just be happy he was allowed to be president.) Because, how can there be racism against minorities, especially blacks if we have a black president? It is impossible.​

​

Fabulous. Absolutely fabulous. Hear that, white people? Even when you do the right thing and contribute to the breaking down of racial barriers, well, you must have been doing it because you have a guilty conscience and just want to silence nonwhite people.

Sod this stupid rhetorical crap. There is literally no way to win with people who think like you.

​

And, if anyone still complains, they will just get dismissed by being accused of focusing on the past, and by being mocked.

You mean exactly how the fans of the white privilege concept in this thread have been treating those who disagree with it?

This is besides the fact most all of the complaints are valid. They will be accused of putting their own black president in office (despite white people out populate blacks 6:1, and blacks are already stereotypical non voters.) They will be accused of being violent "thugs" (new buzzword if you are too scared to call a black guy a n**ger,)

No, it isn't.

All the while, the accusers (perhaps like you, but the ones on this site know who they are) revile the dead by continuously calling them thugs, insinuating that they deserved what they got

If these crimes are being used as an example to prop up the white privilege concept - why shouldn't people point out why they think these examples are misplaced? Basically, we can't challenge the examples put forward to show white privilege exists because MUH RACISM