On Versions of the Bible

[Davy]

I haven't read this one before and hope I don't read it again. There is no such thing as "Holy Spirit markings in the manuscripts". The KJV translators had a very small set of source documents with which to work and of course none of those were originals. (I believe they had ten sources total.)

Today there are thousands of documents from the time of the New Testament era that give translators a far better idea of the meanings of the words, meanings, idioms, etc., as well as more witness documents of the Bible than the KJV ever imagined having.

If there are such things as "Holy Spirit markings" then produce evidence, as I haven't heard that one before.

I just showed you with the order of those Greek words based on the subject flow in Acts 2 about the cloven tongue. If you choose to not read that, it's your choice.

Here is the 19th century Christian scholar E.W. Bullinger's explanation of these type of structures in the manuscripts in his KJV study Bible he compiled, The Companion Bible:

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"They give, not a mere Analysis evolved from the Text by human ingenuity, but a Symmetrical Exhibition of the Word itself, which may be discerned by the humblest reader of the Sacred Text, and seen to be one of the most important evidences of the Divine Inspiration of its words.

For these Structures constitute a remarkable phenomenon peculiar to Divine Revelation; and are not found outside it in any other form of known literature.

This distinguishing feature is caused by the repetition of subjects which reappear, either in alternation or introversion, or a combination of both in many divers manners.

This repetition is called "Correspondence", which may be by way of similarity of contrast; synthetic or antithetic.

The subjects of the various Members are indicated by letters, which are quite arbitrary and are used only for convenience. The subject of one Member is marked by a letter in Roman type, while the repetition of it is marked by the same letter in Italic type. These are always in line (vertically), one with the other." (from The Companion Bible by E.W. Bullinger)
___________________________________________________________

 

[Davy]

What Bullinger did in his Companion Bible was only to outline those subjects according to the subject flow in the actual manuscripts. The letters he used alternates with the type of subject, like I showed with The Holy Spirit's structure on the cloven tongue in Acts 2...

a.- glossa (Greek - language)
a.- glossa
....b. dialektos (Greek - dialect)
....b. dialektos
a.- glossa
a.- glossa

The above structure is directly from the Greek New Testament manuscripts the KJV translators used (Received Texts).

That is a Divine Revelation directly from the manuscripts of what was spoken and heard on Pentecost in Acts 2 regarding the cloven tongue that went out to the peoples of different languages and dialects that were present, who each heard in the very 'dialect' of their natural birth.

Even though the KJV English translation doesn't stick exactly to those Greek words in the manuscripts, it still follows the subject flow. Later Bible translations depart from those Structures to a greater degree, some versions omitting portions of the manuscripts (like the NKJV).

 

[pescador]

What Bullinger did in his Companion Bible was only to outline those subjects according to the subject flow in the actual manuscripts. The letters he used alternates with the type of subject, like I showed with The Holy Spirit's structure on the cloven tongue in Acts 2...

a.- glossa (Greek - language)
a.- glossa
....b. dialektos (Greek - dialect)
....b. dialektos
a.- glossa
a.- glossa

The above structure is directly from the Greek New Testament manuscripts the KJV translators used (Received Texts).

That is a Divine Revelation directly from the manuscripts of what was spoken and heard on Pentecost in Acts 2 regarding the cloven tongue that went out to the peoples of different languages and dialects that were present, who each heard in the very 'dialect' of their natural birth.

Even though the KJV English translation doesn't stick exactly to those Greek words in the manuscripts, it still follows the subject flow. Later Bible translations depart from those Structures to a greater degree, some versions omitting portions of the manuscripts (like the NKJV).

Believe what you want, especially what you choose to believe. If you want to use the KJV go ahead but stop trying to prove that it alone is God's Word. It isn't. It's a translation only, good for its time but there are many translations that are better -- based on better sources and a much better understanding of the Bible languages.

 

[hedrick]

Would you compare translations of the following verse for me?

Php 4:17 Not that I am looking for a gift, but for fruit that overflows to your account.

Majority of translations have the word "account" or "credit" or "reward."

But the Greek original is "logos," which means "word" or "speech."

It is true that "logos" is translated "give account" in other passages but it doesn't refer to a financial account anywhere else.


Does any translation give this meaning?

Louw and Nida says:

"λόγοςf, ου m: a record of assets and liabilities—‘account, credit, debit.’ ἠθέλησεν συνᾶραι λόγον μετὰ τῶν δούλων αὐτοῦ ‘he wanted to check on his servants’ accounts’ Mt 18:23; ἐπιζητῶ τὸν καρπὸν τὸν πλεονάζοντα εἰς λόγον ὑμῶν ‘I seek the results which will increase the amount of your account’ (or ‘… to your credit’) Php 4:17. The phrase εἰς λόγον in Php 4:17 is a technical expression referring to the settlement of an account and indicates that this is a credit to the account. Accordingly, one may properly translate λόγον as ‘the amount of an account.’"

 

[pescador]

Would you compare translations of the following verse for me?

Php 4:17 Not that I am looking for a gift, but for fruit that overflows to your account.

Majority of translations have the word "account" or "credit" or "reward."

But the Greek original is "logos," which means "word" or "speech."

It is true that "logos" is translated "give account" in other passages but it doesn't refer to a financial account anywhere else.


Does any translation give this meaning?

There is a very good reason that a majority of translations have the word "account" or "credit" or "reward." Because in context that's what it means.

Translation takes other things into account besides the English equivalent of a single word. As it should be...

 

[Andrewn]

The phrase εἰς λόγον in Php 4:17 is a technical expression referring to the settlement of an account and indicates that this is a credit to the account. Accordingly, one may properly translate λόγον as ‘the amount of an account.’"

There is a very good reason that a majority of translations have the word "account" or "credit" or "reward." Because in context that's what it means.

It's quite simple with Bible software.

Yes, all scholars agree that it figuratively describes a financial account. The kind of rendering I had in mind is only in Geneva Bible (1599) and Weymouth NT (1903). Even Geneva's "reckoning" could mean "account" in archaic English, leaving Weymouth as the only exception.

Philippians 4:17 (WEY)
17 Not that I crave for gifts from you, but I do want to see abundant fruit bring you honour.

The Cambridge Commentary also has the following entry:

"fruit that may abound] Lit. and better, the fruit &c.—St Chrysostom’s comment here, in which he uses the Greek verb akin to the noun (tokos) meaning interest on money, seems to imply that he, a Greek, understood the phrase to be borrowed from the money-market. If so, we may translate, the interest that is accruing to your credit. The imagery, by its very paradox, would be appropriate in this passage of ingenious kindness. The only objection to the rendering is that the precise Greek words are not actually found in special pecuniary connexions, though they would easily fit into them."