On the value of Vaccines.

[createdtoworship]

Which scary chemicals did you have in mind? - I don't see any on that list.

Again I am for vaccines, I think they are very healthy my whole family gets them, I just am debating someone on facebook and this is what they said.

 

[Tanj]

View attachment 276842

Again I am for vaccines, I think they are very healthy my whole family gets them, I just am debating someone on facebook and this is what they said.

Well there's your mistake. Debating some loon on facebook that clearly has no time for reason or facts. Find something more productive and less ulcer forming.

For the record,

Some vaccines contain alum (an aluminium salt), not aluminium (the metal). You'll also find alum in baking powder.

Thiomersal is harmless, and present in only 2 flu vaccine formulations neither of which you have to take.
Thimerosal and Vaccines

Formaldehyde concentration in vaccines is lower than the natural concentration of formaldehyde that's produced in your body EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY.

The materials used to make vaccines might well sound icky...there's no evidence they carry over to the vaccine. Sausage making is icky too. Still gonna eat them.

 

[sesquiterpene]

I think the benefit of vaccinations is a tricky subject for a few reasons.

For one thing, the world of today is not the world of yesterday. Hygiene, nutrition and sanitation have all vastly improved in much of the world, and these factors contribute to the overall health of an individual and his or her ability to fight off illness or his or her susceptibility to serious illness or death from a disease.

As you should have learned by now, there are diseases like COVID-19 that are spread through air droplets or contact, including the childhood diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox. You should also know what protective gear (PPE) for airborne diseases looks like now. Have you seen 90% of the population wearing full body suits and masks for the past 50 years? No, and yet we've seen 99+% reduction in the incidence of these diseases in the US.

That 99+%reduction was due to the vaccines, and solely due to vaccines.

We also have more and better medicines and better medical treatments for those who become ill than we used to. The disappearance and decrease of many diseases can probably be attributed to those factors, in addition to whatever role vaccines may have played, and we would have to know the impact of those other factors to know how much we ought to credit vaccines for the prevention, reduction and eradication of once deadly diseases.

And yet for the once common childhood diseases - measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox - the medicines and treatments available are no better than those available for COVID-19: no drugs, and only palliative care. And yet three of these are almost eradicated in the US. The reason for this is clear.

It was due to the vaccines, and solely due to the vaccines.

For another thing, the vaccine development process is tedious and expensive, and in order to get a vaccine to market and start making money on it before its patent expires, the companies that develop them skip trials to save time.

This is nonsense. Can you name one vaccine approved in the US that has not undergone clinical trials?

 

[createdtoworship]

Well there's your mistake. Debating some loon on facebook that clearly has no time for reason or facts. Find something more productive and less ulcer forming.

For the record,

Some vaccines contain alum (an aluminium salt), not aluminium (the metal). You'll also find alum in baking powder.

Thiomersal is harmless, and present in only 2 flu vaccine formulations neither of which you have to take.
Thimerosal and Vaccines

Formaldehyde concentration in vaccines is lower than the natural concentration of formaldehyde that's produced in your body EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY.

The materials used to make vaccines might well sound icky...there's no evidence they carry over to the vaccine. Sausage making is icky too. Still gonna eat them.

Thank you for the information, that really helps. Also I heard the aborted fetal cells were from a sample taken in 1960 and they were harvesting the same sample over and over to grow immunities. Do you know anything more about it? I don't have a problem with it if it was a sample from the 60's but if there are constant new samples of aborted fetal cells that would pose a problem. Also cows aborted fetal cell blood? That sounded too weird, I sort of just dismissed that one.

 

[Tanj]

Thank you for the information, that really helps. Also I heard the aborted fetal cells were from a sample taken in 1960 and they were harvesting the same sample over and over to grow immunities. Do you know anything more about it? I don't have a problem with it if it was a sample from the 60's but if there are constant new samples of aborted fetal cells that would pose a problem.

Right, it's same source of cells.
Use of fetal tissue in vaccine development - Wikipedia

Also cows aborted fetal cell blood? That sounded too weird, I sort of just dismissed that one.

Do you understand how milk is made? That dairy cows have to be pregnant all the time? Growing cells in culture requires all sorts of growth factors, foetal bovine serum is a good, plentiful, cheap source.

Like sausage making, much of life behind the scenes is icky.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Reminds me of so many answers on these forums about faith and finding evidence for God...

Just sayin'.

There's actual science involved in peak health. Just sayin'.

 

[createdtoworship]

Right, it's same source of cells.
Use of fetal tissue in vaccine development - Wikipedia



Do you understand how milk is made? That dairy cows have to be pregnant all the time? Growing cells in culture requires all sorts of growth factors, foetal bovine serum is a good, plentiful, cheap source.

Like sausage making, much of life behind the scenes is icky.

so there are a lot of cow abortions or what? I mean in the process of naturally making milk? I guess I don't understand milk processs.

 

[TLSITD]

As you should have learned by now, there are diseases like COVID-19 that are spread through air droplets or contact, including the childhood diseases like measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox. You should also know what protective gear (PPE) for airborne diseases looks like now. Have you seen 90% of the population wearing full body suits and masks for the past 50 years? No, and yet we've seen 99+% reduction in the incidence of these diseases in the US.

That 99+%reduction was due to the vaccines, and solely due to vaccines.


And yet for the once common childhood diseases - measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox - the medicines and treatments available are no better than those available for COVID-19: no drugs, and only palliative care. And yet three of these are almost eradicated in the US. The reason for this is clear.

It was due to the vaccines, and solely due the vaccines.


This is nonsense. Can you name one vaccine approved in the US that has not undergone clinical trials?

All of them undergo clinical trials. I said that they don't undergo as many trials as they should (repetition) because of the financial pressure to get the vaccine on the market before the patent expires. And the cost of trials is very high as well (which besides shortening the trial test times also contributes to the high price if the vaccine when it is released on the market; the company has to recoup its research and development costs). As a result, the vaccines are not as safe as they could be if more trials were run, and that can result in adverse side effects or a less effective vaccine. Time constraints and financial pressure influence how vaccines are tested and how they are produced, not just science and altruism. That is the case with all drugs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

so there are a lot of cow abortions or what? I mean in the process of naturally making milk? I guess I don't understand milk processs.

Cows are not pregnant all of the time, they get a few months off here and there:

Dairy cattle - Wikipedia

And if there was a "cow abortion" that cow would not produce milk. Cows tend to go full term. The cow is bred with either for either beef or replacement heifers. Different bulls are chosen for the job. Male cows are almost all turned into veal, if the mother was bred for replacement heifers, or for beef, if the father was a beef cow. They are almost never raised to be bulls themselves. Life is not all that pleasant for male dairy cattle.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Well there's your mistake. Debating some loon on facebook that clearly has no time for reason or facts. Find something more productive and less ulcer forming.

For the record,

Some vaccines contain alum (an aluminium salt), not aluminium (the metal). You'll also find alum in baking powder.

Thiomersal is harmless, and present in only 2 flu vaccine formulations neither of which you have to take.
Thimerosal and Vaccines

Formaldehyde concentration in vaccines is lower than the natural concentration of formaldehyde that's produced in your body EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY.

The materials used to make vaccines might well sound icky...there's no evidence they carry over to the vaccine. Sausage making is icky too. Still gonna eat them.

Thanks, saved me the trouble

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

There's actual science involved in peak health. Just sayin'.

Yet you seem unable to provide even a scientific definition of it.

Science can and does address health issues, but 'peak health' is not a scientific concept.

 

[createdtoworship]

Cows are not pregnant all of the time, they get a few months off here and there:

Dairy cattle - Wikipedia

And if there was a "cow abortion" that cow would not produce milk. Cows tend to go full term. The cow is bred with either for either beef or replacement heifers. Different bulls are chosen for the job. Male cows are almost all turned into veal, if the mother was bred for replacement heifers, or for beef, if the father was a beef cow. They are almost never raised to be bulls themselves. Life is not all that pleasant for male dairy cattle.

so again how do they get the fetal serum, does it kill the baby or is the baby already dead. I mean if they go full term, the babies are probably raised yes? So do they need the serum?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Yet you seem unable to provide even a scientific definition of it.

Why the insistence on a scientific definition? I have said that the only way to understand peak health is to attain it. You seem to take the position that if it can't be defined it doesn't exist. Recall the judge who when asked what pornography was replied, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Why the insistence on a scientific definition? I have said that the only way to understand peak health is to attain it.

I'm not insisting on it, but if you're claiming that there is, "actual science involved in peak health", you're implicitly saying that 'peak health' has scientific meaning.

You seem to take the position that if it can't be defined it doesn't exist.

You have the wrong impression - that's not my view.

Recall the judge who when asked what pornography was replied, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

Quite - and he was rightly criticised for the subjectivity of that statement (and later said that he regretted it).

The point being that 'actual science' is not subjective, and requires its terms to be defined.

 

[Subduction Zone]

so again how do they get the fetal serum, does it kill the baby or is the baby already dead. I mean if they go full term, the babies are probably raised yes? So do they need the serum?

What "baby"?

Using improper terminology is not wise. The fetal tissue used in vaccines was obtained in the early 1960's

Vaccine Ingredients – Fetal Tissues | Children's Hospital of Philadelphia

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I'm not insisting on it, but if you're claiming that there is, "actual science involved in peak health", you're implicitly saying that 'peak health' has scientific meaning.

I meant that there is a "science" to attaining good health. Chewing food until it is liquefied would be one example. That would be the 'science' of mastication. The results can be quantified scientifically. The same with eating enough fiber or drinking enough fluids, etc; quantifiable scientifically in regard to health.

It actually takes knowledge of the science of digestion, among other things, to attain peak health.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

I meant that there is a "science" to attaining good health. Chewing food until it is liquefied would be one example. That would be the 'science' of mastication. The results can be quantified scientifically. The same with eating enough fiber or drinking enough fluids, etc; quantifiable scientifically in regard to health.

It actually takes knowledge of the science of digestion, among other things, to attain peak health.

What is 'peak health' and how do you know you do or don't have it?

What level, scientifically, is 'enough' fibre or fluids? How do you determine it? What do you measure, scientifically, to quantify when you have masticated optimally for peak health?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What is 'peak health' and how do you know you do or don't have it?

What level, scientifically, is 'enough' fibre or fluids? How do you determine it? What do you measure, scientifically, to quantify when you have masticated optimally for peak health?

If you chew your food until it's basically a mushy liquid it is sufficiently chewed. However you should also be hungry as this will ensure sufficient saliva/enzyme production. This makes the entire digestive process easier and more efficient.

Your stool can tell a lot about your digestive health. If it's healthy there will be/have little odor, easy to pass, no urgency, well formed, usually rich brown color). You will also have a noticeable lack of flatulence), largely odorless as well.

Generally speaking your urine should be nearly clear or light yellow in color. That in a general indicator of sufficient hydration.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

If you chew your food until it's basically a mushy liquid it is sufficiently chewed. However you should also be hungry as this will ensure sufficient saliva/enzyme production. This makes the entire digestive process easier and more efficient.

Your stool can tell a lot about your digestive health. If it's healthy there will be/have little odor, easy to pass, no urgency, well formed, usually rich brown color). You will also have a noticeable lack of flatulence), largely odorless as well.

Generally speaking your urine should be nearly clear or light yellow in color. That in a general indicator of sufficient hydration.

Apart from the comment on flatulence, that's reasonable advice; but it's not particularly scientific and doesn't answer the questions.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Like sausage making, much of life behind the scenes is icky.

I swear most of them have never encountered the business end of a cow.