on the cusp

[kala83]

I do associate myself as christian but I also follow a very budhist and very pagan life style as well.

Associating myself as a Christo-Pagan.

I have run across controversy every where I go but I have finally found a spiritual calling that works for me.

and truly the only difference is I have a bit more statues around my house then other people varying form Hindu to Egyptian like bastet
and I light lots of incense and lots of candles probably more so then other people.

I have always been a big appreciator of other faiths and mythology so making the personal choice to stay christian but also be pagan was my choice. I know I am an odd ball I know that what I do is probably frowned on by many I mean hex I am bisexual as well.

and none of this I truly plan on changing but I don't view myself as a bad person for this and I love Jesus just as much as when I first meet him.

 

[Sedoy]

and none of this I truly plan on changing but I don't view myself as a bad person for this and I love Jesus just as much as when I first meet him.

No you did not. You did not meet Jesus and you do not love Him. He said that He is THE ONLY WAY (John 14.6) yet by following other religions you are calling Him a liar.

Bible, New Testament included is quite clear about sexual sin too:

 

[seashale76]

I mean- you're obviously going to do what you're going to do- but that doesn't mean it makes any sense to me whatsoever.

Let's look at Buddhism: Buddhism teaches the concept of reincarnation (which is at direct odds with the Christian belief). They teach that reincarnation occurs due to ignorance and suffering- and that one can stop it by becoming a Buddhist. Different schools of thought claim different things. Theraveda Buddhism (the oldest form) doesn't believe there is forgiveness of sins (or negative karma), while Vajarana Buddhism believes mantras can help with this. Christianity believes we have eternal souls- Buddhism doesn't.

The eight-fold path itself isn't really at odds with Christianity (especially everything regarding ethical conduct). However- just accepting the eight-fold path doesn't make one Buddhist. You have to accept all of the Buddhist teachings, be part of a Buddhist community, and accept the Buddha.

They generally consider a Buddha to be an enlightened/awakened/purified person who will help others to achieve the same state. Mahayana Buddhists look at the Buddha as a god-like figure. In fact- Buddhists believe in various spirits and demons- though they don't see them as gods (but the way they relate to them amounts to worship/appeasement/whatever you want to call it). However- Buddhists generally claim to be atheistic (as they believe ultimately everything will come to nothing and cease to exist- and that there is no ultimate creator) even though they directly relate to spirits and demons.

In fact- spirit possession is not unknown in Buddhism. They have various oracles, who are people possessed by specific spirits which have been known to them for centuries. It even makes the Dalai Lama uncomfortable.

Speaking of the Dalai Lama, he has changed his views on non-Buddhists over the years. He's gone from believing that everyone should be Buddhist to recanting that belief. Now, he's even gone so far as to claim that Christ was a Buddha who reached enlightenment. While that's a nice thought- Christianity and Buddhism are two belief systems that are inherently at odds.

To me- despite the talk of enlightenment, etcetera- it seems like a hopeless belief system. Why bother at all if no matter what they teach you'll simply cease to exist one day?

Regarding what makes one pagan, I've always looked at paganism as being an umbrella term, under which there are many different beliefs. At it's broadest definition, I can see that not being part of one of the Abrahamic faiths, yet still having a religion or spiritual path could be considered pagan (however- I'm thinking of various religious philosophies that I really don't automatically think of as pagan when I hear about them- but that may just be me).

When others are accused of not being pagan when they claim to be, I'd counter that the accused person is just a different sort of pagan from the one doing the accusing. I assume that when one accuses another of not being pagan, what they likely mean is that they're not from a Garnderian influenced or reconstructivist tradition that is currently popular, and must therefore be out of the clique. It's a middle school mentality.

I also disagree with the irreligious and hedonistic definition of paganism, as one can effectively argue that Christians who consider themselves utilitarians are hedonistic. That sort of hedonism is actually a very demanding system of ethics to adhere to. Also, the way I've seen the slight used, it is more akin to calling someone uncivilized- and the word used is usually heathen instead of pagan. (I was called a heathen often, as a child.)

Regarding the concept of Christo Paganism, I can see where someone who claims to be one would have issues. I don't really see how that would work out from a Christian perspective, as we're supposed to have unity of faith and that hinges on communion. I'm not being mean or noninclusive about it, when I say this. In my mind, one either follows Christianity as traditioned, or one sets himself/herself up for being voluntarily excommunicated. It's a different mindset. We adhere/conform to the Christian faith, we don't expect for others to agree with us or accept that we have the same faith if we deviate.

As paganism encompasses a wider variety of beliefs, then I think it is more plausible from that perspective, but it still doesn't make logical sense.

 

[Sketcher]

On what basis that is found in Christianity do you believe this to be acceptable?

 

[aiki]

I do associate myself as christian but I also follow a very budhist and very pagan life style as well.

Associating myself as a Christo-Pagan.

I have run across controversy every where I go but I have finally found a spiritual calling that works for me.

Um, this is very postmodern of you, but it isn't very...well, logical. In fact, "Christ-Pagan" is a contradiction in terms. The two belief systems are starkly at odds with one another. Believing you can pick and choose parts of religious systems and mash them together into "what works for me" reveals a serious misunderstanding on your part about the Christian faith - and I suspect the other faiths from which you're borrowing, too.

and truly the only difference is I have a bit more statues around my house then other people varying form Hindu to Egyptian like bastet
and I light lots of incense and lots of candles probably more so then other people.

In your religious picking and choosing you've managed to miss the heart of the Christian faith completely. How sad.

I have always been a big appreciator of other faiths and mythology so making the personal choice to stay christian but also be pagan was my choice. I know I am an odd ball I know that what I do is probably frowned on by many I mean hex I am bisexual as well.

So, you're the captain of your fate, is that it? No one's gonna' tell you how to live or what to believe? Is this the heart of your approach to religion and life in general?

and none of this I truly plan on changing but I don't view myself as a bad person for this and I love Jesus just as much as when I first meet him.

Well, God says you are a sinner in desperate need of a Saviour. Your view and His are quite opposite. And when you stand before Him some day, it will be His view, not your own, that will matter.

I'm afraid you don't really love Jesus at all. Perhaps you love some of his teachings, but the Jesus revealed in Scripture is a stranger to you.

Selah.

 

[drjean]

It's good that you love Jesus, because He loves you (and me) much more. I do have to take exception to your claiming the title of Christian though, because this is different than accepting Jesus' for eternal life. Being a Christian means you follow Christ Jesus, and Him only...and do those things that please God, and not do those things He's asked us not to do.... so you do see the issues with that, don't you?

 

[kala83]

I have known Jesus and his teachings all my life and I practice bible study every single day. Simply because I also am pagan which for the record does not mean I worship Satan it means I respect the earth and the life it gives us.

I do know who Jesus is and I know for a fact he is not as judgmental or as rude as most of you people!

so what that I don't follow things like you do. So what that I am open minded and study other religions and give respect to old religions that pre date Christianity.

I happen to be a liberal christian that asks questions. People who blindly follow things are closed minded.

Faith is not meant to be something that you are pressured to do...it is meant to be something that speaks personally to your own heart. And by people scaring others saying how much they pitty you or hate you is not helpful.

So I am different then you? I know who Jesus is I like him I study his works and to some degree I believe in a lot of things that he does and says but no I don't follow every single word the bible says to a tee. And your not supposed to, I mean do you people know anything of theology anyway?

if we were to seriously follow Jesus for all that he did and said out of the bible, then all the modern day clothes we wore would be considered a sin and wrong to wear (due to their mixed clothing that Livticus tells us is a no-no) or you men folk could not go out on thanksgiving and throw around a foot ball cause you should not touch the skin of a pig.

One can not expect to live completly biblically faithfully one can try as best one can but all people shall and will fall short. You have no rights what so ever to judge me for what you call MY SINS for YOU have sinned as well.

and truly what sin have I done, tried to be more open minded toward those who are slightly different then I? been kind toward other cultures and other faiths and being non judgemental. Does not the bible say to be christ like in your ways?

that seems very much like the kind of behavior Christ would want to see out of people.

You know if Christians as whole would stop being so rude in general toward people and wanting to condemn them to hell and back all the time.

and accepting that not all people are bad, simply due to the fact they are different you might not get people so mad at you or hurt by you.

besides not many other religions will say people should not kill but then turn around try to wipe out entire nations, cause those people believe differently then we do...so we should just ignore that rule and say its totally ok to kill these people anyway.

I am not trying to make an argument I am merely trying to say....I do not appreciate where as I am trying to be polite to most anyone on this board and when I am simply honest I get my head bitten off.
again not very Christ like behavior in my own opinion.

 

[kala83]

No you did not. You did not meet Jesus and you do not love Him. He said that He is THE ONLY WAY (John 14.6) yet by following other religions you are calling Him a liar.

Bible, New Testament included is quite clear about sexual sin too:

umm the bible is soo not clear on sexuality the argument that it makes on sexuality comes from Leviticus literally one of the most closed minded, and hypocritical of biblical texts.

and the bible discusses that it does not agree with the sex of two same sex people. My first real "girlfriend" and I never had sex. We feel in "love" with each other, and for the most part still are to this day. In my opinion it wards off from the perversions of sexuality...but "loving" another person of the same sex I see no harm in at all. And you don't have to have sex to love someone.

 

[seashale76]

Nobody here is being mean to you that I've seen. If you come here and claim to mix various faiths together to create your own religion then you shouldn't expect people to agree with you that you are part of their religion just because you take a part of their faith as part of your mix. It's logic. There's nothing mean about pointing this out to you. YOU started this thread.

You and I do NOT share the same faith. End of. I'm sorry if that particular reality hurts your feelings, but it is what it is. We don't believe the same things. If you believed as I did then you would be baptized and chrismated, living your spiritual life in the Church within the same context as me, partaking of the fountain of immortality- and we would have unity of faith. We would commune together- and in my faith communion/eucharist is EVERYTHING. We don't adhere to simply an intellectual assent to believing in Christ- we have a very physical aspect to our faith. Honestly- I'm almost 100% certain that you know as little about my faith as I do about yours.

We adhere/conform to the Christian faith and we don't expect others to believe that we're adhering/conforming to the Christian faith if we deviate from it in any fashion. Again- logic. May God guide you to Himself.

 

[aiki]

I have known Jesus and his teachings all my life and I practice bible study every single day. Simply because I also am pagan which for the record does not mean I worship Satan it means I respect the earth and the life it gives us.

I don't think you worship Satan consciously or purposefully, but any belief that departs from Christ's truth is a lie of the devil and leads you toward him and destruction and away from Christ.

I do know who Jesus is and I know for a fact he is not as judgmental or as rude as most of you people!

This statement proves you really don't know Jesus! Consider what Jesus said to the Pharisees:

Matthew 3:7 (NKJV)
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

Matthew 23:13-15 (NKJV)
13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

And so on. Evidently Jesus was judgmental and I'm sure the Pharisees thought Jesus was very rude when he called them "hypocrites" and "sons of hell" and "brood of vipers"!

so what that I don't follow things like you do. So what that I am open minded and study other religions and give respect to old religions that pre date Christianity.

So what, indeed?

I happen to be a liberal christian that asks questions. People who blindly follow things are closed minded.

My dear, you aren't Christian - however liberal you might think yourself to be. And it occurs to me that in condemning those who you think are close-minded you show yourself to be close-minded, too. Where's your open-mindedness and liberal thinking when it comes to those who disagree with you?

Selah.

 

[Dolokhov]

Edit- please delete.

 

[Sedoy]

umm the bible is soo not clear on sexuality the argument that it makes on sexuality comes from Leviticus literally one of the most closed minded, and hypocritical of biblical texts.

.

Which part of "shall not inherit kingdom of God" don't you understand?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

You call word of God “close minded and hypocritical” while claiming to know and love the very God who wrote it? Very funny!

 

[louise sheinholtz]

I have known Jesus and his teachings all my life and I practice bible study every single day. Simply because I also am pagan which for the record does not mean I worship Satan it means I respect the earth and the life it gives us.

I do know who Jesus is and I know for a fact he is not as judgmental or as rude as most of you people!

so what that I don't follow things like you do. So what that I am open minded and study other religions and give respect to old religions that pre date Christianity.

I happen to be a liberal christian that asks questions. People who blindly follow things are closed minded.

Faith is not meant to be something that you are pressured to do...it is meant to be something that speaks personally to your own heart. And by people scaring others saying how much they pitty you or hate you is not helpful.

So I am different then you? I know who Jesus is I like him I study his works and to some degree I believe in a lot of things that he does and says but no I don't follow every single word the bible says to a tee. And your not supposed to, I mean do you people know anything of theology anyway?

if we were to seriously follow Jesus for all that he did and said out of the bible, then all the modern day clothes we wore would be considered a sin and wrong to wear (due to their mixed clothing that Livticus tells us is a no-no) or you men folk could not go out on thanksgiving and throw around a foot ball cause you should not touch the skin of a pig.

One can not expect to live completly biblically faithfully one can try as best one can but all people shall and will fall short. You have no rights what so ever to judge me for what you call MY SINS for YOU have sinned as well.

and truly what sin have I done, tried to be more open minded toward those who are slightly different then I? been kind toward other cultures and other faiths and being non judgemental. Does not the bible say to be christ like in your ways?

that seems very much like the kind of behavior Christ would want to see out of people.

You know if Christians as whole would stop being so rude in general toward people and wanting to condemn them to hell and back all the time.

and accepting that not all people are bad, simply due to the fact they are different you might not get people so mad at you or hurt by you.

besides not many other religions will say people should not kill but then turn around try to wipe out entire nations, cause those people believe differently then we do...so we should just ignore that rule and say its totally ok to kill these people anyway.

I am not trying to make an argument I am merely trying to say....I do not appreciate where as I am trying to be polite to most anyone on this board and when I am simply honest I get my head bitten off.
again not very Christ like behavior in my own opinion.

The bible says we are not to worship idols.
When you have idols in your home,, it is a curse.
We either idolize God alone or we cannot be Christian.
God may give us choices, but, we will pay for the wrong choice. The choice is between good or evil.

"There shall be no Gods before me."

 

[Lukaris]

How about pondering the virtues that Jesus Christ has identified for anyone to have (the Beatitudes) & pray for the non Christians (who God knows) who have them? If they have love, there is hope for them since love covers a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8). We are called to abide in love, faith, & hope (1 Corinthians 13:13) & surely to pray for others would seem to be part of this.

There will undoubtedly a fair number of who the Lord knows as righteous but they did not know Him (not their fault of course) & will probably be initially afraid but they are the Lord's:

Matthew 25:34-40

New King James Version (NKJV)

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

While for the unrighteous:

Matthew 25:41-46

New King James Version (NKJV)

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46

New King James Version (NKJV)

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


As for Christians well we better remember the parable of the wise & foolish virgins (Matthew 25:1-13).

 

[louise sheinholtz]

How about pondering the virtues that Jesus Christ has identified for anyone to have (the Beatitudes) & pray for the non Christians (who God knows) who have them? If they have love, there is hope for them since love covers a multitude of sins (1 Peter 4:8). We are called to abide in love, faith, & hope (1 Corinthians 13:13) & surely to pray for others would seem to be part of this.

There will undoubtedly a fair number of who the Lord knows as righteous but they did not know Him (not their fault of course) & will probably be initially afraid but they are the Lord's:

Matthew 25:34-40

New King James Version (NKJV)

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

While for the unrighteous:

Matthew 25:41-46

New King James Version (NKJV)

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Matthew 25:46

New King James Version (NKJV)

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”


As for Christians well we better remember the parable of the wise & foolish virgins (Matthew 25:1-13).

People may follow the beatitudes, but, have no idea of what god's love is.

 

[kala83]

you want all christians to be the same as everyone else. And its not true I did not make up Christian paganism its been around for years.

wow me having idols of other gods make evil? so studying history or orgins of christanity is aparently evil as well.
Yes i don't believe that all of the bible is really "the word" but you know what I believe in Jesus and I believe that he is what he claims to be and that is how I was raised. If you think that any of your alls un kind words will sway me in that then you are wrong.

The point is I have seen value in both christanity and in paganism. And its un fair that paganism gets calimed off as people that are devil worshipers and people that are evil they are not! we respect nature and human history where we came from.

You know when I decided I want to be pagan but also keep my connections to christianity it was very hard for me to do. But for the most part of my life I have always been like this even when I read books on other religions I considered myself christian.

I don't claim to be a perfect person and I don't expect any of you would say any of the same of your selves.

But you all pick fights with others in the faith! I know I have seen it! [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] that person is catholic and not baptist well they are going to hell.

is this not being hypocritical itself.

 

[kala83]

Nobody here is being mean to you that I've seen. If you come here and claim to mix various faiths together to create your own religion then you shouldn't expect people to agree with you that you are part of their religion just because you take a part of their faith as part of your mix. It's logic. There's nothing mean about pointing this out to you. YOU started this thread.

You and I do NOT share the same faith. End of. I'm sorry if that particular reality hurts your feelings, but it is what it is. We don't believe the same things. If you believed as I did then you would be baptized and chrismated, living your spiritual life in the Church within the same context as me, partaking of the fountain of immortality- and we would have unity of faith. We would commune together- and in my faith communion/eucharist is EVERYTHING. We don't adhere to simply an intellectual assent to believing in Christ- we have a very physical aspect to our faith. Honestly- I'm almost 100% certain that you know as little about my faith as I do about yours.

We adhere/conform to the Christian faith and we don't expect others to believe that we're adhering/conforming to the Christian faith if we deviate from it in any fashion. Again- logic. May God guide you to Himself.

I put this post in the non christian section of the forums so I don't understand how you don't think I was not aware of that in the first place. I was merly commenting that yes I am not directly christian but i try to study as much as others and I have a deep appreciation for it for my own personal reasons.

 

[joey_downunder]

Kala83, please read this creed and ask yourself where you stand on each statement. It was the first creed of the church, made approximately 325 AD. The Nicene Creed

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[kala83]

I do believe that....lol just as a pagan women in faith I have a lil bit of interes in the known and unknown more so then others is the way I personally see it.


I would like to say here now as someone whom does think of themselves as christian in at least a way.
I apologize for any rudness or bitterness in my feelings or reactions towards anyone here. I truly understand it is merly people expressing there own personal opinions in matters as it is for me as well.

all I truly wished to do was be honest as to whom I am a person to the community this is not an easy thing to do. But I do attempt as best as i possibly can to be good toward my beliefs and spirituality.

yes there are gods and goddesses that speak to me in what they stand for do I worship to them...eh not really so much as much as I am pagan I also feel I am christian as well...and I don't know personally if I feel ok with doing all that.

all that I am is different please do not think ill of me due to just that alone, let me believe how I wish to believe if I want to dwell among you in good spirit I do not see the harm in this.
do unto others as you would do unto yourself, a golden rule i wish I lived by more in my life then I do sometimes.

in the deepest apologies I have to offer and heartfelt respect

 

[joey_downunder]

Well everybody has their good and bad days - including online.

It may seem like splitting hairs to you but it is extremely important to know what Christians actually believe.

Christians should at the very least believe what Jesus Himself said.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Do you agree with Jesus - that He is the only way to God, no other ways - whether gods, or faiths, or beliefs - permitted?