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On Revelation 18: 23, "By Thy Sorceries Were All Nations Deceived."

Discussion in 'Christian Scriptures' started by texian, Mar 3, 2013.

  1. texian

    texian Guest

    On Revelation 18: 23, "By Thy Sorceries Were All Nations Deceived."

    The Babylon of prophecy deals not only in goods but also in the souls of men (Revelation 18: 9-13), and the false religion of Babylon especially deals with the souls of men. The Babylon of prophecy is also found in Jeremiah 50 and 51. For example Jeremiah 51: 6 says "Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence." And Revelation 18: 4 says "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not her plagues," Come out of the false religion of Babylon, after the falling away of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4 and the leavening of Luke 13: 21 leavens the whole.

    Babylon as a metaphor for false religion within the world system, which is also Babylon, comes from the real historical Babylon. In Daniel 4: Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, had a dream, which Daniel interpreted. The King dreamed about a tree that grew to a great size and height, so big it could be seen from all the earth (Daniel 4: 11). The fowls, or birds, lived in the brances of this huge tree. Then, in Revelation 18: 2, it says "Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird."

    This huge tree in the King's dream, which could be seen from all parts of the world, is like the parable of the mustard seed in Matthew 13: 31-32, which produced a large tree in which birds came and lodged in its branches. Mustard seed does not produce a big tree, so something is strange about this parable. The tree in the King's dream and the parable of the mustard seed in Matthew 13: 31-32 represent something that is not of God, but allowed to grow big by God.

    That something is Babylon, and the most important part of Babylon is mystery Babylon of Revelation 17: 1-5. Its called "Mystery Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth." It is not literally the physical mother of prostitutes. Mystery Babylon is the metaphorical mother of Old Testament religion and Christianity in false doctrines and false practices. And the metaphor of Mystery Babylon takes off from the Babylonian Captivity of physical Israel in literal Babylon, where the Talmud developed.

    God is going to judge false religion as metaphoric Babylon.

    Also, Daniel 4:16 says of the stump of the huge tree of the King's dream, or Babylon, that "let seven times pass over him." The King himself was judged in Daniel 4: 23, where it says "...till seven times pass over him." So, the tree which grew so huge it could be seen all over the world, which is metaphoric Babylon, a system, and the King are seen as one and the same in this prophecy. Seven times refers to a period of time during which Babylon does not exist as a nation. Often in scripture a day is seen to be a thousand years, and if we take the 360 day year as the sun cycle in the time of ancient Babylon, each year would represent 360 years. So "let seven times pass over him" or "till seven times pass over him" can be taken to be seven periods of 360 years each. At the end of this period of 2,520 years, starting from the fall of Babylon in 539 BC, the deadly wound Babylon received when defeated by the Persians, would be healed (Revelation 13: 3, 12). Physical Babylon would then exist again. Remember that there is no year zero, and I think the solution is to add one year to the count from 539 BC.

    The year 539 BC for the fall of historical Babylon is based on a stone document known as the Nabonidus (Nabunaid) Chronicle. This stone was discovered in ruins near the city of Baghdad in 1879. A translation of the writing on the stone by Sidney Smith is in Babylonian Historical Texts Relating to the Capture and Downfall of Babylon, London, 1924, and reads in part: “In the month of Tashritu [Tishri, Hebrew 7th month], when Cyrus attacked the army of Akkad in Opis on the Tigris, the inhabitants of Akkad revolted, but he (Nabonidus) massacred the confused inhabitants. The 14th day, Sippar was seized without battle. Nabonidus fled. The 16th day [October 11-12, 539 B.C.E., Julian, or October 5-6, Gregorian] Gobryas (Ugbaru), the governor of Gutium and the army of Cyrus entered Babylon without battle. "

    "The Nabunaid Chronicle . . . states that Sippar fell to Persian forces VII/14/17 (Oct. 10, 539), that Babylon fell VII/16/17 (Oct. 12), and that Cyrus entered Babylon VIII/3/17 (Oct. 29)." It is interesting that a stone tablet was found in 1879 giving us, not only the year but also the month in which Babylon fell to Cyrus.

    Revelation 18: 23 says "And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."

    "For thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived." Merchants is from εμποροι, emporoi, which Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, number 1713, says means "a wholesale tradesman." A Linguistic Key To the Greek New Testament, Vol 2, by Fritz Riennecker, 1980, page 508, says emporoi means "...merchants who deal in foreign imports and exports." They include the world traders. So, the emporoi are not just local small businessmen, but are international merchants, now the giant international corporations..

    Sorceries is from the Greek φαρμακεια, or pharmakeia, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance number 5331, is said to mean "medication, “pharmacy,” magic, literally or figuratively - sorcery, witchcraft.”

    So sorceries in Revelation 18: 23 can mean both that the merchants as world traders of Babylon drug the nations with their medications, but also in a broader sense, Babylon and her merchants, the giant international corporations, deceive the world by their more figurative “magic” or witchcraft, the allure and bait of these merchants to appeal to the flesh of men. Remember I John 2: 16, “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.”

    The giant international pharmceutical corporations, many of whom are headquarted in America, and the medical profession, are also the world traders, the εμποροι, or emporoi.

    Babylon, including the giant pharmaceutical corporations as the merchants of the earth, and their well paid salesmen the doctors, becomes so corrupt that God will judge it by bringing it down. Babylon will become a waste place spiritually inhabited by devils.

    On an Internet site (link deleted for this forum):
    the authors of an article, Has Drug-Driven Medicine
    Become A Form of Human Sacrifice?, tell us:
    "Given this unseemly state of affairs, some believe we are on
    the precipice of a medical end-of-times or “Pharmageddon," if you will,
    where medicine is no longer directly associated in any way with
    healing, but rather is a form of mass control and a highly organized
    means of simultaneously defrauding the public of its wealth and

    "After all, is there any greater absurdity than a medical model that
    treats the symptoms of disease with sub-lethal dosages of toxic
    chemicals and in which there is no attempt to uncover, understand or
    remove the causes of those imbalances?"

    Here they cite part of Revelation 18: 23, "...for thy merchants were
    the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations

    They are interpreting this part of Revelation 18: 23 to mean that the
    drug companies and doctors as the merchants (emporoi, the world
    traders, or international merchants) are deceiving the nations (the
    peoples the world) by their pharmakeia, or drug sorcery. As a part
    of the Babylon of prophecy the drug
    companies and the medical establishment are deceiving the nations by using drugs.
    The medicine men and drug companies claim their drugs heal people, but in
    reality many of the toxic chemicals they sell at enormous prices are harmful
    to the human body.

    And this site goes on to say that "The sole reliance on
    Pharmaceuticals reveals quite a lot about the agenda underpinning
    modern medical practice. The Greek word Pharmakon has the following
    meanings: poison, potion, charm, spell, enchantment." But the origin
    of the word goes back much farther:

    A Pharmakas in Ancient Greek religion was a kind of human
    scapegoat (a slave, a cripple or a criminal) who was chosen and
    expelled from the community at times of disaster (famine, invasion or
    plague) or at times of calendrical crisis, when purification was
    needed. [Source: Wikipedia]”

    “The term "pharmakos" later became the term "pharmakeus" which
    refers to "a drug, spell-giving potion, druggist, poisoner, by
    extension a magician or a sorcerer." A variation of this term is
    "pharmakon" a complex term meaning sacrament, remedy, poison,
    talisman, cosmetic, perfume or intoxicant. From this, the modern term
    "pharmacology" emerged.
    [Source: Wikipedia]”

    "One no longer has to look to religion for the absolutist claim to
    truth. Medical science has laid claim to the body in the same way that
    religions once laid claim to the soul. The physician today -- albeit a
    glorified "applied pharmacologist" -- has become the "priest of the
    body," capable of influencing the course of life or death by the
    quality, or combinations, of nostrums (s)he is able to apply to the
    problem (i.e. patient) at hand."

    And - there is a connection of the giant pharmaceutical corporations back to the Nazis.

    Revelation 6: 5 says "And when he had opened the third seal, I heard
    the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse;
    and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand."

    The Black Horse is the same beast as the leopard in Daniel 7: 6,
    "After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon
    the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads;
    and dominion was given to it."

    This beast is Nazi Germany, plus the post-World War II influences that
    came from the Nazi movement, especially in the U.S. as we assimilated
    many Nazi intelligence operatives and scientists after 1945.

    In the Nazi regime there was a large conglomerate of corporations -
    the Internationale Geshellshaft Farbenindustrie, or I.G. Farben, run by
    the Swiss banker Herman Schmitz. Drug, or pharmaceutical corporations,
    were an important part of I.G. Farben, including the Bayer Company, Merck, and Hoechst.

    A branch of the German parent company of Merck was established in the
    United States. In 1891, George Merck, grandson of the German Emanuel
    Merck, took over the Merck New York office and established
    Merck & Company. In about 1902 the American Merck Company made and
    sold chemicals including bismuths, iodides, and narcotics such as
    morphine and cocaine. Then, later George W. Merck was in the
    Roosevelt administration as Director of the War Research Service
    during World War II. This was the George W. Merck
    who was head of Merck and Company, a large American pharmaceutical
    outfit. Merck remains one of the giant U.S. pharmaceutical
    corporations, with its origins in Germany, where the parent company
    was part of the Nazi business empire, a Black Horse manifestation. The
    U.S. and international pharmaceutical industry has roots in the Black Horse Nazi movement.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2013
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  2. shturt678

    shturt678 Senior Veteran

    Thank you. I wrapped up the day with your very interesting work. From a different vantage point, I can see where you are coming from. I'm a Lutheran Amillennialist and view Rev.18 revealing the tragedy of the great w _ _ _ _ in all its details. V.23 is where "heaven," the saints, etc. and the effect on them when they see the w_ _ _ _, the great, city, the whole antichristian empire and seduction, ended.

    These at v.23 pimped their way to the antichristian seduction. So great they grew in their business of trading in these good of seduction that involved all the earth, i.e., deceiving the nations is the crime.

    Great work and when we pass on we will know who had the truthful interpretation. Thank you so much for making my day caring for the Word of God.
  3. texian

    texian Guest

    shturt678 says "I'm a Lutheran Amillennialist and view Rev.18 revealing the tragedy of the great w _ _ _ _ in all its details." You probably mean the interpretation that Revelation 18, mystery Babylon, is confined to Roman Catholicism.

    Yes, many Calvinists are also Amillennialists, following Augustine and Origen before him, which is also Catholic. But the traditional Lutherans would not have accepted the doctrines of present day dispensationalism, that God has two peoples, all physical Israel and the "church." They called themselves the "church" but did not believe the Lord has two different bodies of people, as Christ says in John 10: 16.

    Apparently at least a couple of decades ago, the Missouri Synod Lutherans also believed in one group of God's people, though they were Amillennialists who over-allegorized much of end time Bible prophecy. I remember going to talk to an older Missouri Synod Luthern preacher in Missouri 20 years ago who knew the Bible and the Textus Receptus and could play Bach on his piano.

    Saying that all Bible prophecy, even those which have specific references to the end times is just history is arguing against part of the Bible itself, which is not a good idea. Look at II Timothy 3: 1-7 as an example. Paul says "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come." Then he goes on to describe the personality traits of people in the "last days." You could say these are traits of people in the world at that time, and you would not be totally wrong. But some things Paul mentions - having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof and ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth describe an end time "church." Some people call this the II Timothy church. It has existed for maybe 50 years.

    To argue, as an Amillennialist, that some prophecies are for the future, though II Timothy 3: 1-7 exists now, is to do the dialectic. You have to be consistent. And in being consistent and saying prophecy is all just history is imposing man's understanding on scripture, man leaning to his own understanding.. In other words, look to scripture itself, to let scripture interpret itself, and don't apply man made theology to it. The Amillennialism of Origen and Augustine is man leaning to his own understanding.

    On the other hand, the dispensationalist Hal Lindsey type interpretation of Bible prophecy also imposes a mind set of man leaning to his own understanding - it is the fables that I Timothy 1: 4, II Timothy 4: 4 and II Peter 1: 16 warn about.
  4. shturt678

    shturt678 Senior Veteran


    Only I don't just confine my interpretation of Rev.18:23 to R.C., kind of a different older Lutheran, from the teachings of Capital University long ago. I only intended to render an interpretation regarding the former passage and thank you for the refute, FOR SURE, regarding bragging about being an AMILL. ... IT IS A HORRID MESS TODAY! You are absolutely correct and I was negligent, to my accountability being aware of your conjecture, and spacing it out. I am grateful to you texian.

    I have worked with you before and do recall, although successfully refuted here and agreeing with you, regarding others Scripture's interpretation may we agree to disagree. Excellent work, not that I'm anybody. Thank you again. Hope to hear from you again.