Please quote the sources? What we are looking for is EXACTLY what they said would happen by when. (People often remember the drama around some old press release - not the actual details.)
Here's one such piece you might be thinking of? It's the Bell Telephone Company “Science Hour” from 1958. Note which claims it does and does not make. What essential data point is missing? (2 minutes).
I cannot find the one I was referring to. But in Australia we had the Green Party who were mainly radicals and there were claims that seas would rise 100 feet back in the 80's or 90's.
But nevertheless many have said seas would rise considerably and it never happened. Gore claimed it would rise 20 feet by 2016 and it hasn't. In fact its risen around 3.8 inches between 1993 and 2021. So at that rate it would take 1,136 years to rise 20 feet.
Former Vice President Al Gore, who warned this week that climate change was leading to "atomic bombs exploding every day," has made extreme predictions in the past.
www.foxnews.com
Its not that the sea levels are not rising and that we should not try and reduce pollution. Its that the panic and exaggeration causes people over reacte with policies that are unnecessary as though we have to stop everything right now or else. This then causes harm in itself.
Environmentalism is a very broad church - and our culture is quite far from God. Many in it have all kinds of odd beliefs about the world and nature. But please - do not commit the 'tainting the pool' logical error of putting them all in the same basket. While some might be close to being pagan animists - others are just young people freaked out by the potential collapse of civilisation!
Unfortunately it may only be a small % who are radical but they end up becoming 100% representative of the damage that they cause society with their crazy protests disrupting society and causing more grief and chaos. They are young and unwise and don't understand the complexities of changing behaviour and society to become more environmentally friendly.
But also they are unreal in that they call for these massive changes almost sending us back to the stone age and yet are the generation with the highest consumption of electronic devices and wasteful living. For which they take for granted. If they really want to set the example then give up all their devices, cars, designer cloths, and stuff and go and live off grid.
The science says climate change (and many other Planetary Boundaries) is serious. Our situation is bad. Real bad. But NOT the end of civilisation. That is - we have the tech to solve this. I'm convinced the future could be awesome - if we get the tech right.
Really. I see the climate change issue as one symptom of a greater issue which is that a world without God is always doomed to fail. A big factor of climate change is consumerism and materialism. So it is this that has to be addressed and not just climate change because even though we may try to mitigate climate change we will be doing other stuff that will still put this planet and nature into chaos and destruction.
But just as Big Oil have been sponsoring climate Denial -
now they also sponsor Climate Doomers! Because if there's NO hope - why bother? Sit back, grab a beer, and chat about how we've only got 10 years left. Welcome to the end of civilisation. - some of these groups start to have cult-like characteristics with systems of power, authorised texts, and cultural names for outsiders to their movement etc. I've written about them here.
Doomers – an introduction
Thats what usually happens when one side goes to the unreal extreme the other has an equal and opposite reaction of their own unreal extreme beliefs.
But I am not sure all oil companies are that much in denial. Many are embracing green energies as they see that as not just good for the environment but smart business sense in that oil is running out and becoming too expensive and green energies are cheaper and becoming practical.
I spend time in some of those forums just trying to spread some technical hope. They're so anti-God that I don't share the gospel there up front - but wait for some of the young people to thank me for challenging the group-think. I've helped some of them avoid crazy life decisions like going out to an uncle's farm to set up a survivalist compound, etc. They've stayed on to finish their university degree, etc, and written to thank me. That's when I can ask more about their worldview and maybe share a little of the gospel. The reason I do this?
Lol don't discourage their idea of going bush. Its a good idea. Not just for climate change but for everything. Just wait for the next epidemic (which will definitely happen) or some food shortage due to disasters and see how many want to setup their own place to avoid all the stess and chaos lol. At least have a foot in both camps so you have options.
I know Christian Professors of Science that are not even sure we're going to make it! I'm partly still trying to convince myself we CAN avoid collapse in the next few years. It's not that I doubt the tech - it's that there are SO many Deniers AND Doomers and people like Trump that I'm not sure we have the wisdom to deploy the good tech in time. See - the clean energy revolution is unstoppable. But we also need revolutions in how we get our food. That is going to be really hard to change unless there are FANTASTIC revolutions in food tech. (There ARE - but I'm not sure their cost will come down in time!)
Its way bigger than that. The food we get is full of genetically modified and poisonous chemcials. So we have little choice to be rounded up like sheep and experimented on. Thats partly why and probably mostly why people and especially kids are developing all sorts of allergies and disorders like ADHD and Austism. Let alone to afford even a roof over your head economically. I think its too late as we have already damaged the future generations.
So what happens if one of these young "Collapse Aware" people meet Christians that just sneer smugly at the science of all this? They just shake their heads and say "Sheeple". In other words - your behaviour nudges them towards the Doomers, not Jesus. Many environmentalists are not content to just sit back and watch TV all night like the sleepy exhausted masses. They're thinking people - and are probably more likely to be ready to ask the big questions about life.
Well yes as Christians thats what the message is the Gospel. This world is against God no matter if its climate change or materialism. This world is not the be all and end all and the reason why many young people are in a state of panic and dispair is that they see nothing, no hope beyond this world.
Please don't alienate them through your own ignorance of the science.
I am not necessarily denying the science but more so the activists exaggeration and disruption as a result which actually harms people right now and not in some future and unrealised scenario. In that sense its like a religion in that its willing to harm people for the belief.
I mentioned a couple above. For example continues materialism and consumerism. Despite having green energy we will be still using up the earths resources and polluting it in other ways such as battery waste land s for all the batteries needed for electricity storage as green energy is intermittant. Population and immigration problems where we will have massive food and land issues as well as diseases.
No sense having green energy and patting ourselves on the back when we are still promoting a type of lifestyle that destroys the planet in different ways.
Yes and no. Mining to replace coal will require a third more mining - and then as we start to recycle the first generation of wind and solar - mining will slow down to a fraction of today's mining. Mining for oil? That's trickier - as many of today's EV batteries are TOO COMPLEX (and a bit dangerously flammable!) as owners want the maximum range. That requires rare earths in an NMC battery. These are more expensive, more prone to thermal runaway, and require more mining and crunching through the raw rock than the oil itself! BUT again - after the first generation - as more and more batteries get recycled - that mining will drop off a cliff.
Mining sites can be restored. My wife just designed a book a dear friend wrote about one of the most beautiful parks in Australia. It was an old quarry! But trying to sequester a TRILLION tons of CO2 out of the atmosphere? Wow - that's hard!
BUt it seems we are just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic. Knowing the mentality of how the world has ordered itself without God like how we play with nature and disrupt ecosystems by big global crop corporations to feed the billions it always has a knock on effect that the so called experts either never realise or deny for the sake of profits.
So I don't believe the happy ending stories of the green experts. Something will go wrong because we are still disrupting Gods order. There will be some issues with how green energy practices are causing devastation in another way. Thats how it has always panned out. Its like using bandaids to patch the owund when it need surgery lol.
Also - we're running out of oil and gas and coal.
And it kills your fellow citizens.
And it's expensive. You pay for coal once when you buy the electricity, and again in your taxes and health insurance! Imagine getting a discount on your health insurance that basically equalled your electricity bill? That's how bad coal is. I can share the stats with you if you're sceptical.
Yes this will be the greatest motivator. Not because they are all good environmentalists but because its becoming unprofitable. But thats part of the problem that they see everything commercially. They see the earth as a commercial product to use and exploit in many different ways.
Are you sceptical about renewables because they are intermittent? I was with you just 3 years ago - and was what you call an 'Ecomodernist' who appreciated nuclear power. But I'm with you. The culture - especially here in Australia where commercial nuclear power is ILLEGAL - is not ready. (Although our Liberal party is promoting nuclear as an 'answer' to climate change - but really they're just trying to slow down the end of the coal for their rural mates in the National party. It's a delaying tactic.)
No I love renewables. It meansd a person can go anywhere off grid and have electricity. I work with the homeless and many have portable solar kits for which they can have power almost anywhere. It saves you a heep of money for hot water and you can even set up your entire home with basically free energy.
But for a large scale society, for industry its still not ready and thats where either clean fossil fuels will be needed for some time or we go neuclear.
I hear you concerns!
Just for fun - try reading this page of my blog and get back to me.
We all know that solar power is only good for the best brightest third of a day, and that wind largely depends on the weather. How does a 100% renewable energy grid survive Dunkelflautes – th…
eclipsenow.wordpress.com
Ok I had a bit of a look but will look in more detail later. But I am not disagreeing that we can overcome a lot of the issues with transferring to green energies. I just don't think it will change things much. Even without the concern of man made climate change its a good idea as we have this energy source thats basically free and versitile. Even oil companies are seeing its benefits. Oil is laboursum and costly and dirty.
I'm a lay person - not a scientist - but I've read many experts on this question - and shocked myself by changing my position a few years back when I suddenly realised I agreed with the engineers that said we could do a reliable grid with wind and solar!
OK well we will just have to wait and see. All I know is it will be a long transition and these radicals who glue themselves to roads and disrupt society and want all fossil fuels to stop by 2030 are unreal and dangerous.
To make a fairly smooth transition and not devastating people now by pricing them out of affording basic human rights like keeping warm in the cold for health, putting food on the table because of high energy and transport on prices will take time. Well beyong 2030. In the meantime we will need coal fired power like for industry. So activists just have to accept that and not play politics.
Then you have the massive problem of third world countries who are the greatest users of fossil fuels and who want the standard of life we in the west enjoy. If we want to change things then we need to help them with facilities because they cannot afford it themselves. Fossil fuels are easy to use but gree energy requires a complete infrastructure. Thats not counting China who are the biggest emitter and don't really care about climate change.
So the west better start making sacrifices. Either help others get to the same standards as the west or give up some standards where we all live modestly rather than lavishly.
