On Free Will

[Wordkeeper]

According to the quote YOU posted, faith is a gift, which undermines you argument.

No, the entire process of salvation, of which faith is a part, is a gift.

Gentiles have been given salvation. What type of salvation?

Salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Now you insult him by calling him handicap? Wow, I find it odd. That people are discussing God's word, then at the other end of their mouths hurl insults. Why?

So they can get fixed? Doh!

 

[Wordkeeper]

No sir or ma'am. The Fall of mankind was the result of One trespass from the One man Adam. God is not responsible for what we do. We are. Just how Calvin defines it. Its our liberty that is in bondage to sin, not because God is sovereign. This has been a misconception of free-will.

Define compatibilism. Define libertarian free will.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

No, the entire process of salvation, of which faith is a part, is a gift.

Gentiles have been given salvation.

What type of salvation?

Salvation by grace through faith.

Did you actually just type that?

 

[ladodgers6]

No, the entire process of salvation, of which faith is a part, is a gift.

Gentiles have been given salvation.

What type of salvation?

Salvation by grace through faith.

Agreed!

 

[ladodgers6]

So they can get fixed? Doh!

Wow!

 

[ladodgers6]

Define compatibilism. Define libertarian free will.

You're smart enough, you figure it out.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Did you actually just type that?

Tsk, Tsk! I'm trying to help!

 

[Wordkeeper]

You're smart enough, you figure it out.

There should be a law...

Is this what you tell the cop when he asks you, "Sir, do you know what the speed limit on this stretch is?"

 

[Wordkeeper]

Wow!

Yo welcome!

 

[now faith]

One can always find a way to twist even the simplest texts.

At the end of the day, your quote undermines itself and your argument. You were even kind enough to bold it for me.

In the context of the verse ,Faith is a Verb.
But the simplest of things are changed according to the interpretation.

 

[now faith]

Grace, xáris, is 'favor extended towards,' disposed to, inclined, leaning towards to share benefit, grace" etc.

The term 'unmerited favor' is often used of God's grace due to this verse and others like it:

"So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace."

Since God's favor is not based on our works, then it is 'unmerited' in that sense. However, salvific grace (as opposed to the general graces God gives to all men of Christ's death, conviction of sin, general revelation, deferring judgment, etc.) does come through faith:

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--" Eph 2:8
What does it mean that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith, and that this is not of ourselves but is the gift of God?

"..through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God." Rom 5:2

"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” Rom 1:17

Etc.

Faith is not a dead work of man, rather it is trust in the person and works of Christ. It is at the point of faith which we are introduced into the grace in which we now stand (Rom 5:2) as children of God, not salvific grace that introduces us to believe. (All the general graces of God, such as Christ drawing all things to Himself at the cross or the revealed gospel, do however lead us to the point where we either believe the gospel or not.)

You are using conceptual semantics ,by cross references in other schripture.
I cannot reconcile your semantics ,due to the lack of any idioms
in the text of Ephesians that would lead me otherwise.
pisteuo is the use of the word faith in verb context.

It qualifys as taking action or making a choice to believe or not,in God.
The book of James is a allegorical point on faith without works being dead.
Faith is both noun and verb,but it's not rocket science to understand a Bible verse.

 

[now faith]

Tsk, Tsk! I'm trying to help!

By insults?

Proverbs: 16. 18. Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. 19. Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

 

[now faith]

Yo welcome!

Ebonic sarcasm ,thats still as good as it was in high school.

 

[Wordkeeper]

By insults?

Proverbs: 16. 18. Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. 19. Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.

You know, follow bad science, and New York could be under 6 feet of water from the ice cap melt.

Follow bad theology, and the result could be even worse:

Matthew 7:23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

 

[now faith]

You know, follow bad science, and New York could be under 6 feet of water from the ice cap melt.

Follow bad theology, and the result could be even worse:

Matthew 7:23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Oh my a Bible verse on climate change ,or a ad hominem attack?
This theology is presumption based on ignorance of fact.
As is all theology due to its intrinsic value being based on theory.
Even the translation is wrong,try another Bible

Matthew: 7. 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Lawlessness?as in not keeping the law of Moses?

We are no longer under the Law but that day in context has not happened yet.
in·iq·ui·ty
iˈnikwədē/
noun

1. immoral or grossly unfair behavior.
   "a den of iniquity"
   synonyms: wickedness, sinfulness, immorality, impropriety; More
   

Using the word iniquity ,is the logical choice since it has a broader meaning.

If your going to call someone a sinner do it right.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Oh my a Bible verse on climate change ,or a ad hominem attack?
This theology is presumption based on ignorance of fact.
As is all theology due to its intrinsic value being based on theory.
Even the translation is wrong,try another Bible

Matthew: 7. 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Lawlessness?as in not keeping the law of Moses?

We are no longer under the Law but that day in context has not happened yet.
in·iq·ui·ty
iˈnikwədē/
noun

1. immoral or grossly unfair behavior.
   "a den of iniquity"
   synonyms: wickedness, sinfulness, immorality, impropriety; More

Using the word iniquity ,is the logical choice since it has a broader meaning.

If your going to call someone a sinner do it right.

Mountains out of molehills. You never showed any significant difference in the meaning.

 

[Aseyesee]

Quote
The problem with that exegesis of the verse is that this is a neuter pronoun and faith is a feminine noun. While a pronoun's case is determined by its function in the Isentence, it gender and number are determined by its antecedent. Therefore, this cannot be referring back to faith. But grace also is feminine, so it cannot be the antecedent of τοῦτο. So what is?

If you looks backwards for an antecedent, you will look in vain. There are neuter nouns, but they make no sense as an antecedent.

The answer is to know a little Greek! When Greek wants to refer back to a general though, perhaps a phrase, the pronoun can be in the neuter. This is not of yourselves does not refer specifically to πίστεως but rather to the entire salvific process, of which faith obviously is a part. It is the entire salvific process that is God's gracious gift and is not part of our own doing. It is a gift.

Antecedents and Faith (Eph 2:8-9) | billmounce.com

In reality you cannot divide faith from salvation, or God from the gift he gives; though the process because of a beginning causes the measuring of it.

 

[Jennifer Rothnie]

Grammar. "This" is referring to faith.

Actually, no. The Greek grammar of 'this not of yourselves...' is referring not to 'faith', but to 'you have been saved, by grace and through faith.' It is the process of salvation as a whole which is the gift. Isolating 'faith' from the sentence would be contrary to the Greek grammar.

The pronoun 'this' is neuter gender, which makes it back to the previous phrase/clause, "By grace ye have been saved through faith." It doesn't match with the feminine gender of either faith or grace.

What does it mean that it is by grace we have been saved, through faith, and that this is not of ourselves but is the gift of God?

 

[ladodgers6]

There should be a law...

Is this what you tell the cop when he asks you, "Sir, do you know what the speed limit on this stretch is?"

Its exactly what I say.