On Free Will

Aseyesee · Jul 2, 2017

Again ...ultimately the will is a 1/3 Part of the soul (the other 2/3 being the voulition and emotions), but we keep speaking of it as if it were not under the rule that Jesus laid out as the only way to find your soul (which again is inclusive of ones will), is to lose it, until then, it is impossible to know the will, impossible to have your eye single ... It's not our will and God's will together, it's a not my will but thine will.

Hammster · Jul 2, 2017

GingerBeer said:
That is not true.

Okay. So folks who are enemies with God can somehow want to do things that glorify him.

I'm sure that's not biblical, but okay.

GingerBeer · Jul 2, 2017

Hammster said:
Okay. So folks who are enemies with God can somehow want to do things that glorify him.

I'm sure that's not biblical, but okay.

That's not true either.

Hammster · Jul 2, 2017

GingerBeer said:
That's not true either.

That's your option with your example.

HeLeadethMe · Jul 2, 2017

It's pretty clear from the bible all over the place that we have a free will, the ability to choose, I won't even put the scriptures, if we have been reading the bible for any length of time we should all have some popping into mind........and what I find is that to question this is really the same old devil asking "did God really say"? This kind of foray, complicating a simple truth, simply does not profit. And it will lead astray of the truth. If we don't have a free will then how can God ask US to repent. But we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God.....it says so explicitly in 1 Peter 1:2

If man and devil did not have a free will, boy that would really lessen God's victory and glory wouldn't it. But as it is I'm in awe of Him, even this minute.

PeaceJoyLove · Jul 2, 2017

Hammster said:
Right. Doesn't say what he said it says.

frienden thalord said:
So then, when God says I DESIRE that the wicked perish not , but rather that he repent
or as JESUS said
How often would I have gathered you, only You WOULD NOT
they lie .

Hammster said:
Scripture references, please, because I know Jesus never said that.

These scriptures do say what frienden thalord wrote...not sure what you are disputing.

GingerBeer · Jul 2, 2017

Hammster said:
That's your option with your example.

No, it's me saying that the extreme conclusions that you jumped to are not true.

PeaceB · Jul 2, 2017

frienden thalord said:
Amen . Do you believe that God desires none to perish.

Hammster said:
Nope. If that were true, then none would.

This type of logic seems rather silly. Did God desire for Adam Lanza to walk into a school and murder 20 innocent children? By your logic he would.

jimmyjimmy · Jul 2, 2017

PeaceJoyLove said:
You strain at gnats and you'll swallow a camel...

2 Peter 3:8 ...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

EDIT: And Ezekiel 18:32

Who is the audience for these comments? Who is being addressed?

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

The, "you" in 2 Peter are those to whom the epistle is addressed:

Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by therighteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

jimmyjimmy · Jul 2, 2017

HeLeadethMe said:
It's pretty clear from the bible all over the place that we have a free will, the ability to choose

Sinner have the ability to choose sin. That's what they desire. They cannot please God, nor do they desire to. It is only once a person becomes a new creation, aka, born again, that he is able to please God.

HeLeadethMe said:
But we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God.....it says so explicitly in 1 Peter 1:2

Yes. God knew us beforehand. What does that have to do with the OP?

HeLeadethMe · Jul 2, 2017

Aseyesee said:
Again ...ultimately the will is a 1/3 Part of the soul (the other 2/3 being the voulition and emotions), but we keep speaking of it as if it were not under the rule that Jesus laid out as the only way to find your soul (which again is inclusive of ones will), is to lose it, until then, it is impossible to know the will, impossible to have your eye single ... It's not our will and God's will together, it's a not my will but thine will.

I believe we lose our own will but only in a manner of speaking..........and willingly. The Lord does not force us to deny self and follow Him unto death of our self life. Jesus said, "If you WOULD be my disciples..." And even that death is not literal, it only means the flesh nature has been overcome. We will always remain "dead" to self willingly too.....since there always remains the possibility of falling, like those angels did. So I think of the will becoming one with His, as being really a willing and happy submission of our will to His will......simply called overcoming (of our self will) in the bible.

JamesFW · Jul 2, 2017

Hammster said:
Scripture references, please, because I know Jesus never said that.

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’

JamesFW · Jul 2, 2017

Hammster said:
Who? Where in that passage does it say every person? (Context matters)

Do you think it when it says all, it includes you?

JamesFW · Jul 2, 2017

jimmyjimmy said:
Who is the audience for these comments? Who is being addressed?

The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

The, "you" in 2 Peter are those to whom the epistle is addressed:

Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by therighteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Why would those who obtained a faith with equal standing as Peter's, have to worry about perishing?

sdowney717 · Jul 2, 2017

HeLeadethMe said:
It's pretty clear from the bible all over the place that we have a free will, the ability to choose, I won't even put the scriptures, if we have been reading the bible for any length of time we should all have some popping into mind........and what I find is that to question this is really the same old devil asking "did God really say"? This kind of foray, complicating a simple truth, simply does not profit. And it will lead astray of the truth. If we don't have a free will then how can God ask US to repent. But we are elect according to the foreknowledge of God.....it says so explicitly in 1 Peter 1:2

If man and devil did not have a free will, boy that would really lessen God's victory and glory wouldn't it. But as it is I'm in awe of Him, even this minute.

Ephesians 1:11 is pretty awesome, God works all things according to His will, and He does not take any input from anyone, so salvation is of the Lord and not our good deeds. God is sovereign, supremely all powerful, tyrannical, and benevolent towards His people working all things for their good, Christ is God whom you can put your trust in. Jesus Christ is full of grace and truth.

In Christ also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will,

sdowney717 · Jul 2, 2017

Philippians 3:20-21New King James Version (NKJV)
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

God subdues all things to Himself according to His own will and takes no counsel from anyone except Himself. That leaves your will out of any salvation equation.

Christ taught us to Pray, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. We are to acknowledge His will, but we can ask-petition to Him in prayer.

It was not our will that He made us born of God, it was His will alone.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

HeLeadethMe · Jul 2, 2017

sdowney717 said:
Ephesians 1:11 is pretty awesome, God works all things according to His will, and He does not take any input from anyone, so salvation is of the Lord and not our good deeds. God is sovereign, supremely all powerful, tyrannical, and benevolent towards His people working all things for their good, Christ is God whom you can put your trust in. Jesus Christ is full of grace and truth.

In Christ also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will,

The counsel of His will does include His foreknowledge of our willingness or unwillingness.
1 Peter 1:2

HeLeadethMe · Jul 2, 2017

sdowney717 said:
Philippians 3:20-21New King James Version (NKJV)
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

God subdues all things to Himself according to His own will and takes no counsel from anyone except Himself. That leaves your will out of any salvation equation.

Christ taught us to Pray, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. We are to acknowledge His will, but we can ask-petition to Him in prayer.

It was not our will that He made us born of God, it was His will alone.

John 1
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

HeLeadethMe · Jul 2, 2017

.....able to subdue all things to Himself....is referring specifically to what that verse is saying there about the body. He is WILLING that none perish.....and yet many do......so it is clear that He is not forcefully subduing everyone to Himself.

.......born....of God........is just saying in that verse that the new birth is not wrought by flesh, but by God. Neither we nor any man, nor natural birth caused us to be born again, that was a gift and miracle of God......to those who did not reject it.

I agree 100 % we can pray and ask and petition of the Lord.....

jimmyjimmy · Jul 2, 2017

JamesFW said:
Why would those who obtained a faith with equal standing as Peter's, have to worry about perishing?

Exactly! They don't have to.

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