Omnipotence

[Jon_]

If God is omniscient, why did he change his mind? Didn't he know the future?

God doesn't change his mind. Those instances in the Bible where God appears to change his mind are rather him responding man for the benefit of man.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

Another good question would be why do people have the habit of referring to God as "He"?

Because he is our heavenly Father.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

All is One... infinity and zero have similar properties... this article might shed a bit of light on the concept.

http://everythingforever.com/st_math.htm

One and infinity are concepts. God is a being.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

Because the lexical structure of English is inherently biased towards the male, therefore the standard pronoun for indefinite entities is 'he'.

Except that pronouns referring to God have been masculine in every language they have been translated into (barring those languages that do not have a gender system, e.g. some Asian languages). God was masculine long before English even existed.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

Scientists generally agree that Time is a physical property of our universe, it is a creation. If a God created the universe, he is probably not bound by time himself- being timeless in existence; outside of time. If that is true, he wouldn't have a past or a "future mind" because he has already thought of it. It's not linear.

Correct.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Gus2009]

No, that's logically impossible. It's tantamount to God making true false. If he makes true false then what is false? Moreover, what is true? God can do anything that is possible--but not all things are possible.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

So he is not omnipotent? God could never count to infinity? God could never go faster than the speed of light if he was an object inside the universe? God could never make something from nothing inside the universe? All those things are logically impossible. Im not sure if i like youre answer.

 

[Teufelhund]

In answer to the original question, the question itself is flawed, you cannot create a quantity greater than an infinite quantity, so God could neither create a mountain greater than himself, or jump over it. In the second part God being infinite would have to be apart of the mountain itself as it were created, as God is omnipresent thus meaning that he could no more jump over the mountain than you could jump over your own head, it is not so much a question of omnipotence as it is the nature of things. We are making assumptions using a system of physics designed to relate to finite quantities, and a system of measurements and mathematics designed to relate to our finite system of physics, meaning that our physics, our way of understanding things is fundamentally flawed when we are trying to percieve and understand that which is non-finite, that which is infinite.

 

[Jon_]

So he is not omnipotent? God could never count to infinity? God could never go faster than the speed of light if he was an object inside the universe? God could never make something from nothing inside the universe? All those things are logically impossible. Im not sure if i like youre answer.

Infinity is not a number. It is not possible to "count to infinity." God is not an object in the universe nor can become one; however, since he created both light and physics, he could easily create something that travels faster than the speed of light. And have you not read that God created everything from nothing?

Whether you like my answer or not could not matter less. What matters is sound arguments.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Teufelhund]

Actually the rule is that objects cannot accelerate to a speed greater than that of the speed of light as their mass will become infinite. God is not within the universe, if anything the universe is within God. God encompasses the universe and is beyond it, this is why none of our laws of physics can comprehend him, because he extends beyond their scope.

 

[Jon_]

Actually the rule is that objects cannot accelerate to a speed greater than that of the speed of light as their mass will become infinite. God is not within the universe, if anything the universe is within God. God encompasses the universe and is beyond it, this is why none of our laws of physics can comprehend him, because he extends beyond their scope.

There are a number of theoretical and practical examples of particles exceeding the speed of light, sometimes by factors of up to 30 orders of magnitude. The latter part of what you said is absolutely right, though: "In him we live and move and have our being."

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[phsyxx]

Perhaps one should refer to God as IT. Does anyone believe God to be male, female, or an androgyny?

We've all done this game of semantics before - it's all covered by the writings of Wittgenstein -
if we all agree to have the word "Gard" as a non-gender specific term for God being a being and being beyond beings which ARE gender specific - then we'd just be being pinickity and wasting time, as pretty much all scripture refers to gard as he/him.

 

[Gus2009]

Infinity is not a number. It is not possible to "count to infinity."

Infinty not being a number is irelevant in light of omnipotence. My question is, can God count to infinity? Much like, can God make true false. That is exactly why i picked it. Youre answer seems to be exactly what it was when i first asked "No". This means God is not omniopotent.

God is not an object in the universe nor can become one;

I agree that He is not, although i am not sure if he cannot become one. I beleive that he could if he chose to be. While Jesus has always existed forever, there was a time when he lived here on earth physically. Jesus is God.

however, since he created both light and physics, he could easily create something that travels faster than the speed of light. And have you not read that God created everything from nothing?

I like these answers better. To further my point, since God created logic. Could he not easily create something that defies it? Could he not make something true and false at once? Could he not count infinity? I beleive that God does choose to work within logic, however he is not restricted by it. God made logic. Defined what true and false were. He could change the definitions if He wanted to. God is not limited to what is possible. God defined what possible was.

Whether you like my answer or not could not matter less. What matters is sound arguments.

Apparently my like/ dislike of them made me respond. Therefore it means something. Perhaps you should consider the consequences of youre own arguments before you decide how sound they are.

 

[Gus2009]

There are a number of theoretical and practical examples of particles exceeding the speed of light, sometimes by factors of up to 30 orders of magnitude.

Where? Ive never heard this.

 

[Jon_]

Where? Ive never heard this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light#.22Faster-than-light.22_observations_and_experiments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

Infinty not being a number is irelevant in light of omnipotence. My question is, can God count to infinity? Much like, can God make true false. That is exactly why i picked it. Youre answer seems to be exactly what it was when i first asked "No". This means God is not omniopotent.

Define omnipotence. You seem to be working with a definition that requires logical contradictions to be possibilities--something that is absurd.

I agree that He is not, although i am not sure if he cannot become one. I beleive that he could if he chose to be. While Jesus has always existed forever, there was a time when he lived here on earth physically. Jesus is God.

How can an infinite being become finite? No, there was a time when Jesus did not exist. Rather, the Son of God has always existed. Jesus is the God-Man, the union of a divine nature and a human nature; however, as all Christians believe, Christ's divine nature remains completely unaffected by his human nature; otherwise, God's property of immutability would be violated.

I like these answers better. To further my point, since God created logic. Could he not easily create something that defies it? Could he not make something true and false at once? Could he not count infinity? I beleive that God does choose to work within logic, however he is not restricted by it. God made logic. Defined what true and false were. He could change the definitions if He wanted to. God is not limited to what is possible. God defined what possible was.

How do you know God created logic? How do you not know that logic is a property of God, of God's mind? I do not accept your assumption that logic was created.

Apparently my like/ dislike of them made me respond. Therefore it means something. Perhaps you should consider the consequences of youre own arguments before you decide how sound they are.

If I did that then they wouldn't be sound arguments. Sound arguments are formally valid arguments with true premises--the consequences follow inexorably from them. If you find yourself rejecting peoples' arguments simply because you dislike the conclusions then perhaps you need to start taking a closer look at the arguments themselves. After all, it is sin to disbelieve what is true.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Gus2009]

Define omnipotence. You seem to be working with a definition that requires logical contradictions to be possibilities--something that is absurd.

Yes, if something is omnipotent it can contradict logic. When i say omnipotent, I mean they can do anything. Things concievable and not. Perhaps it comes across as absurd to you, that isnt relevant.

How can an infinite being become finite? No, there was a time when Jesus did not exist. Rather, the Son of God has always existed. Jesus is the God-Man, the union of a divine nature and a human nature; however, as all Christians believe, Christ's divine nature remains completely unaffected by his human nature; otherwise, God's property of immutability would be violated.

So youre suggesting that Jesus is not the Son of God? Are you suggesting that Jesus was just a temporary phase that the Son of God existed in? When Christ ressurected He did not leave "jesus" behind. Im not sure if youre definition holds. They are the same. Jesus is the Son of God and has always existed. I believe this is core to western Christian doctrine. If im being heretical please show me.

How do you know God created logic? How do you not know that logic is a property of God, of God's mind? I do not accept your assumption that logic was created.

God created everything. Including concepts that humans would eventually conceive. You could say that logic does not actually exist and is simply a human observation of the world(like math). However, it does exist in the human mind(per say) and therefore God conceived it. I do not believe anything that exist in the world was not first conceived by God. If you disagree with this i do not hold it against you but i must disagree.

If I did that then they wouldn't be sound arguments. Sound arguments are formally valid arguments with true premises--the consequences follow inexorably from them. If you find yourself rejecting peoples' arguments simply because you dislike the conclusions then perhaps you need to start taking a closer look at the arguments themselves. After all, it is sin to disbelieve what is true.

I dislike them because i think they are false. I do not like the conclusions or the thought processes that lead to them. Could my dislike be an indicator of the flaws within the argument?

 

[Jon_]

Yes, if something is omnipotent it can contradict logic. When i say omnipotent, I mean they can do anything. Things concievable and not. Perhaps it comes across as absurd to you, that isnt relevant.

Then an omnipotent being can create something that is both omnipotent and impotent. How do you explain that? Absurdity is actually very relevant--it's at the heart of why your definition is wrong and unacceptable.

So youre suggesting that Jesus is not the Son of God? Are you suggesting that Jesus was just a temporary phase that the Son of God existed in? When Christ ressurected He did not leave "jesus" behind. Im not sure if youre definition holds. They are the same. Jesus is the Son of God and has always existed. I believe this is core to western Christian doctrine. If im being heretical please show me.

Please read what I said again. What I enumerated was nothing more than the orthodoxy of Chalcedon. All I said is that Jesus's human nature has not always existed, which was my contention against your comment that "Jesus has always existed forever. . . ."

God created everything. Including concepts that humans would eventually conceive. You could say that logic does not actually exist and is simply a human observation of the world(like math). However, it does exist in the human mind(per say) and therefore God conceived it. I do not believe anything that exist in the world was not first conceived by God. If you disagree with this i do not hold it against you but i must disagree.

Are you using "conceive" as a synonym for "create?" Also, did God create love?

I dislike them because i think they are false. I do not like the conclusions or the thought processes that lead to them. Could my dislike be an indicator of the flaws within the argument?

No more than my like could be an indicator of its soundness.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Gus2009]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light#.22Faster-than-light.22_observations_and_experiments

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

I skimmed the article and only found cases of photons traveling faster than light. Photons are light. I meant something that isnt a photon. Tachyons have never been observed. The rest seemed to be speculation.

 

[Teufelhund]

Photons cannot be light and then be traveling faster than speed of light. That's pretty elementary. The idea is that objects which are already moving at the speed of light or greater or those objects which have no mass could easily attain and excede the speed of light.

 

[Gus2009]

Then an omnipotent being can create something that is both omnipotent and impotent. How do you explain that? Absurdity is actually very relevant--it's at the heart of why your definition is wrong and unacceptable.

Yes, i suppose it could. I cant explain it. But if it was omnipotent it should be able too.

Please read what I said again. What I enumerated was nothing more than the orthodoxy of Chalcedon. All I said is that Jesus's human nature has not always existed, which was my contention against your comment that "Jesus has always existed forever. . . ."

So, whats youre answer? At first it was Jesus did not always exist, now its his human nature. Im not sure if either is right. Jesus is 100% God, 100% man and always has been(or so i thought). Human nature and everything? Is this wrong?

Are you using "conceive" as a synonym for "create?" Also, did God create love?

Sure. In as much as an intangible concept can be created, yes, God created it. Yes.

No more than my like could be an indicator of its soundness.

It is fine if you like it. I still disagree with it.