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Oldest rock in the world 2 days after creation (embedded age)

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Hans Blaster

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It actually was. Just not the kind of natural only evidence you came to revere.
I don't think you understand my meaning. Some come to faith because of personal experiences, or being convinced by scriptures or theological tracts, or just a need to have something "spiritual". I only believed because the people I trusted the most told me it was true and I accepted their beliefs as mine. I no longer accept such things on parental authority.
There are lessons to the things that happened. However, your school must have been in a different time and place. In no way was I ever taught in Catholic school that the creation in six days or Adam and Eve in the garden was not true. I believe that all curriculum for the school was approved by some higher up clergy or some such as well.
What they teach now is opposite.
I said I didn't go to Catholic school. (A bullet I clearly dodged; thanks poverty.) What I learned of religion came in CCD, in church, and at home and it never included "six days of creation" as historical fact.
I do not recall any ages being taught. But if God really made the world and the first man and then woman, that means the teachings of science are all wrong on the matter.
Science doesn't have "teachings". we have results.
 
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truthpls

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Explain in explicit detail what your mean by "Jesus made it all
John didn't, so why would anyone need to explain the unexplained? No one was there and privy to how God created the universe and world with a word. How in heaven's name would anyone have 'explicit details' about that miracle?
John rightly puts Jesus in a position of deity and emphasizes his role in creation:
No. John says without Jesus nothing that was made was made and that all things were made by Him. That is plainly stating that He created. When you create all things and nothing that was created was not made by you, that is not a 'role'! Being the creator is not a role. It is a title and description of God about what He did. Only for the naturalonlydunnitall folks would they begrudgingly attribute some bystander or impotent spectator sort of role to God Almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
The simple meaning is that his decision to give us gendered bodies wasn't arbitrary.
It was planned and executed. Part of what creation was all about.
Nor was it just for practical reasons like making babies.
That was one reason for sure. We were meant to reproduce.
It was necessary so that we could have the capacity to bear his image.
In a way we might apply that to what was done. We do not know or need to know all His reasons for doing things or creating the way He did.
There is no Christians barrier to accept the science of evolution nor is there a barrier for you not to accept the science.
Yes, Once we believe that Jesus created all things including the first man from whom He took a bone and made the first woman, that is a complete barrier to believing anything else. Particularly something directly opposite and contrary.
There are infarct many Christian biologists, However, there are notable scientists such Francis Collins who discovered the genes associated with a number of diseases and led the Human Genome Project.
The stated religion of people pushing lies and contradicting Jesus and Scripture does not matter. It is one thing to try and make the natural world a better place and learning how it works. It is quite another thing to look at how it works and claim that it was therefore not created by God.
There is overwhelming scientific consensus that the universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old, and the Earth is around 4.5 billion years old, meaning there is widespread agreement that both are billions of years.
There is belief that the natural only Christ omitting, creation ignoring and denying interpretation of natural processes represent ridiculous ages pre dating creation by many billions of years. That is a choice of belief. It rests on nothing but the natural world and how it now works. I think AV framed the term for that false science aptly by calling it 'blasphemy' That is precisely what it is, open blasphemy. A Satanic inspired family of lies with zero evidence that is thrust on people as scientific fact. An insult and attack on children and people of faith and God and Scripture. Defamation of character. The lie is not that there are no processes in nature that happen. Or that if we imagine how long these and these alone would take to make all that we see, we would not come up with astronomical numbers. The lie is claiming creation was due to the natural and not God. No. The natural is due to creation!!
If you disagree, go for it. Here is a good site that will help you out. Personally I think it is a BS site but who am I to judge?
None at all, when it comes to what God is all about or the supernatural or the naturalonly.
 
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truthpls

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I don't think you understand my meaning. Some come to faith because of personal experiences, or being convinced by scriptures or theological tracts, or just a need to have something "spiritual". I only believed because the people I trusted the most told me it was true and I accepted their beliefs as mine. I no longer accept such things on parental authority.
Or at all apparently?
I said I didn't go to Catholic school. (A bullet I clearly dodged; thanks poverty.) What I learned of religion came in CCD, in church, and at home and it never included "six days of creation" as historical fact.

Science doesn't have "teachings". we have results.
Results of the teaching that the natural only dunnit, that are all in fantasy land. Any actual results in the world have nothing to do with the denunciation of God and creation and the supernatural by science. The only place science rubber hits the road is here in the natural world. Not in creation.
 
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Frank Robert

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I don't think you understand my meaning. Some come to faith because of personal experiences, or being convinced by scriptures or theological tracts, or just a need to have something "spiritual".
I can resonate with "spiritual" something happen to me a few months, that I don't understand, I have no idea what, but it drew me back to childhood religion.
 
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Aaron112

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That's a very serious visible apparent problem for we people who love the truth, the whole truth, and are set free by the truth.
If you agree great, it not, what impels you to differ.
 
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Aaron112

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But do they know and tell the truth and heal people ?

With no knowledge of genomes or genes or dna,

honest healers have healed people for thousands of years. - even of things no science has been able to do anything about except make it worse ! and exceedingly more expensive!! (guess the motive)
There are infarct many Christian biologists such Francis Collins who discovered the genes associated with a number of diseases and led the Human Genome Project.
 
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Aaron112

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oops...... what happened to honesty ?
Correct, an individual organism itself cannot evolve biologically, but its descendants can evolve over time as the genetic makeup of a population changes across generations, leading to potential variations in future offspring.

In other words: Evolution acts on populations, not individuals.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Or at all apparently?
I certainly do not accept any religion, religious text, or religious doctrine as "an authority" on anything except what it is they believe.
Results of the teaching that the natural only dunnit, that are all in fantasy land. Any actual results in the world have nothing to do with the denunciation of God and creation and the supernatural by science. The only place science rubber hits the road is here in the natural world. Not in creation.
Science doesn't denounce gods, it ignores them.
 
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dlamberth

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I can resonate with "spiritual" something happen to me a few months, that I don't understand, I have no idea what, but it drew me back to childhood religion.
It's the personal spiritual experience is when I feel it gets real. What I have trouble with are the claims of some sort of spiritual authority when what's really going on are "mental concepts" and calling that spiritual. We see that happening through out the Creation debate.
 
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dlamberth

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honest healers have healed people for thousands of years. - even of things no science has been able to do anything about except make it worse ! and exceedingly more expensive!! (guess the motive)
That's true. Shamans have been healing people for 10's of thousands of years.

But for an honest Healer, (if they are honest) they know that they have limits and know when to send their patient to the hospital.
 
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truthpls

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I certainly do not accept any religion, religious text, or religious doctrine as "an authority" on anything except what it is they believe.
Well if they believe Scripture is true and Jesus, and that He created the world, then I guess they are an authority on that? Or do you mean that they are an authority on what they believe only so long as it doesn't cramp the style of what you believe?
Science doesn't denounce gods, it ignores them.
Yes it does. So if God created the universe that is ignored. The opposition of science to God is not usually overt and brave and honest. It is sneaky, under the rocks, in the dark, insidious under the surface hatred and disrespect and opposing Him. By using only the natural they set up their own god. To it they give the glory and honour and credit for bringing all into existence. They ignore all gods equally except their own.
 
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BCP1928

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"Theistic evolution" allowing for God to have used the process of evolution to create life, is not universally accepted by all Christians.
"Theistic evolution" as I understand it, implies either that God intervenes in the biological/genetic processes of evolution, either constantly or periodically, or that He created the process of evolution and just lets it run on without further intervention. Is that what you mean by it?
 
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AV1611VET

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It's the personal spiritual experience is when I feel it gets real.

Sounds like you've been listening to Eliphaz too much.

Job 4:15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
 
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BCP1928

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Well if they believe Scripture is true and Jesus, and that He created the world, then I guess they are an authority on that? Or do you mean that they are an authority on what they believe only so long as it doesn't cramp the style of what you believe?

Yes it does. So if God created the universe that is ignored. The opposition of science to God is not usually overt and brave and honest. It is sneaky, under the rocks, in the dark, insidious under the surface hatred and disrespect and opposing Him. By using only the natural they set up their own god. To it they give the glory and honour and credit for bringing all into existence. They ignore all gods equally except their own.
You may be an authority on what you believe, but you are certainly not well informed on the beliefs of others. You have convinced yourself that if a person does not believe in the literal accuracy of the Genesis creation stories then he must believe that God had nothing to do with creation at all. That may be your belief, but it is not necessarily the belief of anyone else.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Well if they believe Scripture is true and Jesus, and that He created the world, then I guess they are an authority on that? Or do you mean that they are an authority on what they believe only so long as it doesn't cramp the style of what you believe?
It wasn't if others accepted scripture as authority, it was if I do. And I DON'T.
Yes it does. So if God created the universe that is ignored. The opposition of science to God is not usually overt and brave and honest. It is sneaky, under the rocks, in the dark, insidious under the surface hatred and disrespect and opposing Him. By using only the natural they set up their own god. To it they give the glory and honour and credit for bringing all into existence. They ignore all gods equally except their own.
You should look into "non-overlapping magesteria". If you understand that, you will be closer to understanding that science doesn't study gods.
 
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truthpls

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You may be an authority on what you believe, but you are certainly not well informed on the beliefs of others.
If believing there was a creation was authoritative, how would any of the beliefs of others change that? You said we were an authority on what we believe But word games aside, we can say the same of those whose belief is in only the natural world! They may be an 'authority' on their own beliefs.



You have convinced yourself that if a person does not believe in the literal accuracy of the Genesis creation stories then he must believe that God
Not the God who created all things as the bible says. That is who He is, the creator. Not the amazed little bystander who watched the marvels of evolution create!

..had nothing to do with creation at all.
Yes He had everything to do with creation, regardless of what some weaker brethren think
That may be your belief, but it is not necessarily the belief of anyone else.
Creation is the stated reality of the bible. Not anyone's personal doctrine or belief. It is the undeniable, clear, repeated underlying theme of Scripture. That is what makes the creator coming to earth and assuming physical form so amazing and important. He left the glories of heaven and came to this little speck of a planet to suffer and die for mankind that He had formed and created. For someone to take to heart beliefs that say we actually came from animals and that the universe is a result of some natural processes is blasphemous.
 
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BCP1928

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For someone to take to heart beliefs that say we actually came from animals and that the universe is a result of some natural processes is blasphemous.
Maybe so, but to accuse them of believing that even though they do not is arrogant and presumptuous. There are people who believe devoutly in God who do not believe in the literal inerrancy of Scripture. That's a fact, and you are just going to have to suck it up.
 
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