Old Earth Creationism

[GenemZ]

The word MADE is used several times in Genesis 1 it means the same thing!

Bara is not the same meaning as asah. Bara is a word uniquely attributed to God. Asah can even apply to men, but never bara when it comes to creating something.

You can not *make* something out from nothing.

It does not say ... "In the beginning God *made* the heavens and earth.

Why? Because God *created out from nothing* the heavens and earth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Bara is not the same meaning as asah. Bara is a word uniquely attributed to God. Asah can even apply to men, but never bara when it comes to creating something.

You can not *make* something out from nothing.

It does not say ... "In the beginning God *made* the heavens and earth.

Why? Because God *created out from nothing* the heavens and earth.

Bara is used in several verses in reference to God creating people. It is used in reference to the people who died in the flood and Jacob as well as several others. These people were not created from nothing they were offspring from their parents. Even Adam & Eve we’re not created from nothing.

 

[GenemZ]

Bara is used in several verses in reference to God creating people. It is used in reference to the people who died in the flood and Jacob as well as several others. These people were not created from nothing they were offspring from their parents. Even Adam & Eve we’re not created from nothing.

Adam and Eve's souls were created in Genesis 1:27. Their bodies were produced for those souls in Genesis 2.

In the mean while...I have a feeling its about what you do not see.

God creates the human soul. Parents only produce the body for that soul.

Your parents did not create you. God created your soul. Your parents produced a body for that soul.

 

[GenemZ]

Bara is used in several verses in reference to God creating people.

Where?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Adam and Eve's souls were created in Genesis 1:27. Their bodies were produced for those souls in Genesis 2.

In Genesis 1:28 He tells them to be fruitful and multiply. Souls don’t multiply. And in verse 31 it says “God saw that all that He had MADE was good.” Made (asah) not created (bara). I do agree that God created our soul not our parents but that’s besides the point. The point is that nowhere does it say that He created our soul before our body. Both Adam and Eve were fully created both body and soul in Genesis 1.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Where?

Genesis 6:7
Isaiah 43:1
Malachi 2:10

 

[GenemZ]

In Genesis 1:28 He tells them to be fruitful and multiply. Souls don’t multiply.

Correct.... Souls do not multiply. God was revealing His plan for mankind when He said to go forth and multiply. Keep in mind. Angels were witnessing to God's conversation. God was revealing his plan for mankind.

Then why did He need to give them bodies later? After God created those souls?
Bodies reproduce, not souls.

For it says, the Lord breathed into the nostrils of the body (a body that was not bara/created) the breath of lives....

The body was 'jatsar' - molded and formed, out from the elements of the earth. It was not 'bara' created out from nothing like the souls were in Genesis 1:27.

How can you be able to catch such details as you do, yet missed the others?

That means you are not incapable of knowing truth.

Its the human soul that was created in God's image. The body now is disposable. The body was not created in God's image.

 

[GenemZ]

Malachi 2:10

Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?"

Which proves a point I was making. Our parents did not create us.

They only created a body. God alone creates every soul. That is why it says they all have one Father.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Correct.... Souls do not multiply. God was revealing His plan for mankind when He said to go forth and multiply. Keep in mind. Angels were witnessing to God's conversation. God was revealing his plan for mankind.

He wasn’t “revealing His plan” He told them to go forth and multiply. He did t say go forth and multiply later on after I give you a body.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Then why did He need to give them bodies later?

He didn’t, Genesis 2 is a retelling of Genesis 1.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Correct.... Souls do not multiply. God was revealing His plan for mankind when He said to go forth and multiply. Keep in mind. Angels were witnessing to God's conversation. God was revealing his plan for mankind.

Then why did He need to give them bodies later? After God created those souls?
Bodies reproduce, not souls.

For it says, the Lord breathed into the nostrils of the body (a body that was not bara/created) the breath of lives....

The body was 'jatsar' - molded and formed, out from the elements of the earth. It was not 'bara' created out from nothing like the souls were in Genesis 1:27.

How can you be able to catch such details as you do, yet missed the others?

That means you are not incapable of knowing truth.

Its the human soul that was created in God's image. The body now is disposable. The body was not created in God's image.

This is pointless you refuse to accept what the scriptures actually state and I’m done pointing out your mistakes. There’s no reason to continue this discussion “he who has ears to hear let him hear”. You seem more concerned with protecting your theory than rightly dividing the word of God so if your going to turn a blind eye to the scriptures there’s nothing more I can say to convince you. Have a blessed day.

 

[GenemZ]

He wasn’t “revealing His plan” He told them to go forth and multiply. He did t say go forth and multiply later on after I give you a body.

But He did say that. That is.. for those whom He knew would know how to read what the first two chapters say... And, end up gaining "understanding."

Get wisdom, get understanding!
Do not forget or turn aside from the words of my mouth.
Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you;
love her, and she will safeguard you;
The beginning of wisdom is: get wisdom;
whatever else you get, get understanding."​

Prov 4:5-7

 

[GenemZ]

He didn’t, Genesis 2 is a retelling of Genesis 1.

You would be laughed out of any competent seminary where the Hebrew is taught.

 

[GenemZ]

This is pointless you refuse to accept what the scriptures actually state and I’m done pointing out your mistakes. There’s no reason to continue this discussion “he who has ears to hear let him hear”. You seem more concerned with protecting your theory than rightly dividing the word of God so if your going to turn a blind eye to the scriptures there’s nothing more I can say to convince you. Have a blessed day.

Careful... As you judge, so shall you be judged. For it is yourself whom you speak of.

 

[Chris35]

Could be this.

8And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed. 9Out of the ground the LORD God gave growth to every tree that is pleasing to the eye and good for food.

Book of Jonah.
5Jonah had gone out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 6Then the Lord God provided a leafy plant a and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the plant. 7But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the plant so that it withered. 8When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah’s head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, “It would be better for me to die than to live.”

9But God said to Jonah, “Is it right for you to be angry about the plant?”

“It is,” he said. “And I’m so angry I wish I were dead.”

10But the Lord said, “You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight.


Here is another example..
People who are healed by God, are heal instantly. How do you think healing occurs, but restoration of the damaged parts in seconds.

 

[FaithT]

I'm not a YEC but I don't dispute them. I simply don't know how old the earth is and I'm skeptical that anyone actually does

Do you mind telling us what denomination you are? Or are you non denominational?

 

[FaithT]

I just don’t know what I think. I was raised Catholic then after quite a long faith journey I became Lutheran LCMS. Problem is, my church believes in creationism and Catholics are free to choose. This has bothered me for a long time. I might return to Catholicism over it.

Does anybody here have scholarly scientific links to prove creationism?

 

[PrincetonGuy]

I just don’t know what I think. I was raised Catholic then after quite a long faith journey I became Lutheran LCMS. Problem is, my church believes in creationism and Catholics are free to choose. This has bothered me for a long time. I might return to Catholicism over it.

Does anybody here have scholarly scientific links to prove creationism?

Young earth creationism as it is taught today is a modern invention spearheaded by some popular Seventh-day Adventist and Missouri Synod Lutheran teachers—and a little later by the late Henry Morris. Today, it is mostly an assault against science and common sense. Indeed, there are today no men or woman who have earned a Ph.D. in a field of science and who are currently employed as scientists who support this modern teaching that depends upon an exceptionally crude and archaic interpretation of Genesis 1-11 and references in other parts of the Bible to these chapters.

For a through, honest, and objective interpretation of these chapters, please see the 636-page commentary on the Hebrew text of Genesis 1-11 by Claus Westermann. For other commentaries on the Hebrew text of Genesis that confirm the accuracy of Westermann’s conclusions, please see those by John Skinner, Ephraim A. Speiser, and Gerhard von Rad.

For an excellent, scientific article on the age of the earth from an educated Christian perspective, please see the following,

Radiometric Dating

 

[Job 33:6]

 

[BPPLEE]

Do you mind telling us what denomination you are? Or are you non denominational?

Non denominational .