Hi
@genez
I've been following your discussion with
@coffee4u. It's a rather common problem that we all have to deal with from time to time. That our arguments are not convincing in making their point.
For me, I know that the words that are being discussed here are found in the very oldest of the Hebrew Scriptures. The Pentateuch is the very first establishment of the Scriptural writings. They are, depending on who one believes to have cobbled them together, about 3500 years old. Somehow, of all the translations where people have sat down and pored over the words in Hebrew to translate into another language, over 3500 years, no one has seen fit to write the words translated as you do.
Often, with translating work, one is dealing with words that may have a couple or three different thoughts to convey. Let me use your example: You are saying that the only way that the word for the Hebrew word translated as 'hover', is as a mother hen warming her eggs to hatch. While that may be true, it is not the only understanding that the word 'hover' is meant to convey. People say that a helicopter parent 'hovers' over their children. (I'm using English words here because I'm not that familiar with daily Hebrew word usage). Is that to convey that they are sitting on them waiting for them to hatch? A drone 'hovers' over the ground. Does that mean that it is sitting on it's eggs waiting on them to hatch? So, hopefully you can see, that while 'hover' can mean like a hen nesting on her eggs, it doesn't paint that picture in all of its usage. As I say, as yet, there is not one single translator who has written that passage of Scripture -- the Holy Spirit lay over the earth warming it as a hen nests on her eggs.
As has been pointed out, you have obviously convinced yourself that this type of 'hover' is what is meant by the writer 3500 years ago who wrote down the Hebrew words. And by that definition, you are able to make the claim that the earth must have been cold for the Holy Spirit to have been doing that. Well, that's just not the only, nor the generally accepted understanding that the word 'hover' was ever meant to convey. Hopefully this makes some sense to you, even if you don't agree that the word 'hover' could intend some other meaning in the context of the creation account.
They you make a very big deal that 'make' and 'create' intend two completely different meanings. I don't agree, when you read the context in which they are used. But, you have convinced yourself of that and I suppose that's where you're going to stay in your understanding of the Scriptures. Fine. But this issue of one being the stubborn one in their understanding goes both ways.
I believe that what is really missing here is a clear understanding of the power of God. There is also no understanding of the purpose of God in creating this realm of life. For me, the Scriptures lay out a complete and relatively detailed plan of all that God has done in creating the life that humankind has. They then explain the purpose for which God created that life in humankind. That He desires to be in relationship with man, just as He desires to be in relationship with the angels that He also created. He is a God of love and He creates living creatures to share and enjoy life with for as long as He exists. He is like that hen that hovers and loves on and protects and provides for her chicks. God wants to do the same thing with the angels and with mankind, and possibly one day He will create some other living creature to build upon His kingdom. But there is a purpose for which God created this realm!
As we continue reading the Scriptures that He has given to us through His people Israel, we find that the ultimate purpose is that He will separate the wheat from the chaff and He will live eternally with all those who likewise desire to love and honor and have a relationship with Him. That's His ultimate purpose for creating this realm of existence and He will achieve it at the culmination of this realm as we know it. The last chapters of the Revelation reveal to us God's achieving this ultimate purpose for which He first said, "Let there be light!"
I believe, that once we understand this purpose, then we see the emptiness of some argument that wants to prove that the earth and heavens have existed for millions and billions of years before the creation of man...why? Why, would God, who is more powerful and able to do that which is impossible, create an empty universe to spin for billions and billions of years void of the creature with life that God wants to be in relationship with? When He can simply create it to exist in mere moments, in total perfection as a realm of existence for that creature of life that He desires to be in relationship with. Which, even more importantly to me, is exactly how God describes, in His words that were written by His very finger, in the law. God wrote these words, according to the account of Moses:
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them,
This says that in six days God made the heavens. It also says that in six days God made the earth. It also says that in six days God made the sea. It also says that in that same six days God made everything that is in them. That's everything that is in the heavens and the earth and the sea. God's word says that He did it in six days.
You apparently don't want to believe that God did do all that in six days. Let me ask you, if I may, what existed before the start of that six day period? I mean, obviously your argument is striving to make the point that the earth existed before the six days. What about the stars? What about the sun and the moon? What about any plants or animals?
God bless,
Ted
