OK all TE'ists ... define "Supernatural"

[California Tim]

I've seen all your arguments against YEC and the historical narrative Genesis interpretation. They are all based on nature, and so-called "provable" phenomenon and are based on the principle of conformity. So tell me, what do you consider a "supernatural" event and how does it factor into your "theories" - or do you even allow for such?

 

[Mikecpking]

A supernatural event would for me include the timing of an event, no physical explanation, the allowance for the sovereignty of God to show and act in power such as in healing. And I have witnessed that.
But that does not stop nor needs to stop me believing in a creator God who has chosen to set life in motion to change in the way he has shaped over billions of years.

 

[philadiddle]

I've seen all your arguments against YEC and the historical narrative Genesis interpretation. They are all based on nature, and so-called "provable" phenomenon and are based on the principle of conformity. So tell me, what do you consider a "supernatural" event and how does it factor into your "theories" - or do you even allow for such?

The supernatural (Latin: super- "exceeding" + nature) refers to forces and phenomena which are beyond the current scientific understanding and concept of nature, and which may actually directly contradict conventional scientific understandings. Concepts in the supernatural domain are closely related to concepts in religious spirituality and metaphysics.

Those asserting the occurrence of supernatural events and entities usually describe them as having been observed or experienced firsthand, but as being so unique that they cannot be systematically observed, recorded, or studied. Examples include sightings of angels, healings, creationism, and communications with the dead.

Those denying the plausibility of supernatural events typically define them as events which cannot be perceived by natural or empirical senses, and whose understanding may be said to lie with religious, magical, or otherwise mysterious explanation—yet remains firmly outside of the realm of science.

The term "supernatural" is often used interchangeably with paranormal or preternatural—the latter typically limited to an adjective for describing abilities which appear to exceed possible bounds.

Supernatural claims assert phenomena beyond the realm of current scientific understanding, and may likewise be in direct conflict with scientific concepts of possibility or plausibility. The supernatural concept is generally identified with religion or other belief systems—though there is much debate as to whether a supernatural is necessary for religion, or that religion is necessary for holding a concept of the supernatural.

 

[shoelimpy]

If you believe in the occurence of supernatural events, then why do you deny that Creation could have happened in the supernatural way described in Genesis? It is ridiculous to say that you believe in the Creator and yet at the same time call that Creator a liar by denying his story of Creation.

 

[philadiddle]

If you believe in the occurence of supernatural events, then why do you deny that Creation could have happened in the supernatural way described in Genesis? It is ridiculous to say that you believe in the Creator and yet at the same time call that Creator a liar by denying his story of Creation.

because that's not what the evidence we find tells us. why would God create the earth and leave a record of a false past that never happened?

 

[ebia]

If you believe in the occurence of supernatural events, then why do you deny that Creation could have happened in the supernatural way described in Genesis?

Most TE'ists do not deny that God could have created in the way described in Genesis. They deny that he did create in that way. Creation itself tells us how he created it, Genesis tells us something of why he created it and what his relationship to it and us is.

It is ridiculous to say that you believe in the Creator and yet at the same time call that Creator a liar by denying his story of Creation.

TE's generally don't say Genesis is a lie, but that Genesis is not meant to tell us how God created the world but why and what our place in it is. God told us how creation happened through creation itself, spoken by God.

 

[Mikecpking]

If you believe in the occurence of supernatural events, then why do you deny that Creation could have happened in the supernatural way described in Genesis? It is ridiculous to say that you believe in the Creator and yet at the same time call that Creator a liar by denying his story of Creation.

Hi Shoelimpy,
As you were addressing me, the evidence in the rocks shows a much older earth than 6,000 years. Having studied geology in the field and seeing evidence of sedimentation, folding, metamorphism, erosion followed by sedimentation uplift etc in 1 single place, too much has happened to give 'flood geology' and credance. I believe God could have created it in an instant, but he didn't. Its not his style to create confusion and delusion. But in no way does it mean that God is not a creator.

 

[AndrewinIdaho]

By denying the Genesis story you are saying God is a liar. If God is a liar then Jesus might not really have died for us, and we have no faith. Either God did creat the earth as said in Genesis or there is no God you cannot have it both ways

 

[ebia]

By denying the Genesis story you are saying God is a liar.

Only if God wrote the Genesis account, and only if God intended it to be understood as an account of how the world was made. Neither of those are clearly true. (In fact, they are both clearly false.)

 

[Dracil]

By denying the Genesis story you are saying God is a liar. If God is a liar then Jesus might not really have died for us, and we have no faith. Either God did creat the earth as said in Genesis or there is no God you cannot have it both ways

By denying reality you are saying God is a liar. If God is a liar then Jesus might not really have died for us, and we have no faith. Either God did create the earth like it was created in reality or there is no God you cannot have it both ways

 

[Mikecpking]

By denying the Genesis story you are saying God is a liar. If God is a liar then Jesus might not really have died for us, and we have no faith. Either God did creat the earth as said in Genesis or there is no God you cannot have it both ways

Who said I was denying the Genesis story? Perhaps you, but the truth of Genesis was to show that God set man as the pinnacle of his creation, we have a relationship to him. Mankind is unique in the animal kingdom in having a relationship to God and the setting aside of the Sabbath.

But in no way does the bible demand a literal interpretation of this account!

 

[DailyBlessings]

My definition for supernatural is "that which cannot be observed through scientific methods." And I don't think the distinction exists in reality- "supernatural" things affect "natural" things, and vice versa. If you presume that there is really a difference, that is where things get muddled. And both sides are guilty of this.

 

[PlanetTraveller]

"Supernatural" is a word like 'perfect,' 'nothing' or 'utopia.' In much technicality, it's not a concrete existence.

There is nothing supernatural about anything really.

God is all natural.

 

[ebia]

My definition for supernatural is "that which cannot be observed through scientific methods." And I don't think the distinction exists in reality- "supernatural" things affect "natural" things, and vice versa.

If the "supernatural" does affect the "natural" in a consistent way, then science can observe it through that interaction, so you could no longer consider it to be supernatural.

 

[DailyBlessings]

If the "supernatural" does affect the "natural" in a consistent way, then science can observe it through that interaction, so you could no longer consider it to be supernatural.

Perhaps I could have worded that better- the natural world is an extension or reflection of "supernatural" truths. Science is a useful but incomplete method of understanding a fact, as it can only lend understanding to certain given aspects of any event.