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Featured "Oh. So you're saying my Mother is in hell?"

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Kenyon Ledford, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    I don't pray for the dead. It's too late for them. But how do I know what they said to God before they died? So I don't assume that person went to hell.

    2 Corinthians 6
    (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

    Hebrews 9
    27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    I hope to see people in heaven who died without my knowing whether or not they were saved.
     
  2. jkjk

    jkjk 초능력을 쓴다

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    I don't pretend to know what God's wisdom is or even what is in the hearts of other people. I know, in the grand scheme of things, almost nothing. Who am I to say what God judges?

    That said, I tend to view the issue of praying for the dead as Catholics do. We should pray for the living. We should pray for the dead. But mostly, we should just pray.
     
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  3. NIChristian

    NIChristian New Member

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    1. I would tell them that God decides, and I cannot say for certain either way.

    2. On the prayer issue, the RCC teaches that a person is judged and will go to either hell or heaven. If they are going to hell prayer is useless, if they are going to heaven immediately one may ask them to join their prayers with ours. On the other hand if they are going to heaven but need a period of cleansing first they go to purgatory and the prayers of the faithful can help speed this process up. I don’t think the idea that prayer can change a persons eternal state exists in any mainstream church but happy to be proved wrong.
     
  4. Kenyon Ledford

    Kenyon Ledford Active Member

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    Are you saying babies who die go to hell?
     
  5. Kenyon Ledford

    Kenyon Ledford Active Member

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    I read that near death the brain releases a drug 100 times or so stronger than lsd. I wonder if these near death accounts are just hallucinations
     
  6. The Faceless

    The Faceless Has A Face

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    That's a tricky question and I'm not sure of a way out of it.

    If you say yes, you act as judge and you also turn them off and make them angry.

    If you say no, you don't know, or God is judge, they go on living as usual because a.) You said no, so what's the use for God b.) You said you don't know and nobody listens to someone who doesn't know their stuff c.) You said God is judge and knows their heart so they keep on keeping on because they think themselves good and if there's a God then God must know that too.
     
  7. Gracefullybroken27

    Gracefullybroken27 New Member

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    Hello Kenyon. This is something I pray about all the time. I have friends and family whom have passed on and didn't know whether they accepted Christ into their hearts before they took their final breath, but I believe in my heart that the Lord reveals himself to us one final time to give us one more chance to choose him. There's a place in scripture that those who do not know the Lord are not made accountable for their sins and so their judgement is weighed by their works in this life, but then there is another area where it says along the lines that our works alone cannot save us, but our faith in Jesus Christ. I am a firm believer in the power of prayer and even if that one person just knew the name of Jesus that the Lord would find a way to open their heart to Him. God wants none to perish, but in hopes that we may all be saved through Jesus Christ and I truly believe that the Lord uses prayer to do just that and move into the lives of the ones lost and open up their hearts to Jesus Christ even if it's right before they pass on from this life.
     
  8. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog I am a Christian mutt. You can call me Rox

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    There is no purgatory in the word. "Absent from the body present with the Lord" There is no in between.

    "There's a place in scripture that those who do not know the Lord are not made accountable for their sins and so their judgement is weighed by their works in this life"

    I don't believe it, care to tell us where that scripture is in the bible? If we were judged by our works we wouldn't need Jesus. Works will never get us into heaven.
     
  9. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    Most people can accept the idea that God is a just God but cannot accept the belief that God would sentence their mother who was a "good" person to eternal torment in hell as that would create the perception that God is "unjust." Therein lies the dilemma posed by your scenario. However that need not be the case.

    I presume that you would acknowledge that God is just, but the question is punishment the same thing as justice? We would both agree that being condemned to the lake of fire qualifies as punishment but does it meet the demands of justice? For example, a rapist could rape a woman. He claims he is innocent and is not repentant for his crime but is found guilty and sentenced to prison. We would agree that the rapist is being punished but the rape victim will have to live with the consequences of what happened to herfor the rest of her life. Is that justice as the victim has life-long consequences through no fault of her own? Suppose yet that a child was conceived and born as a result of the rape and the mother now has the responsibility to raise the child on her own while the perpetrator does nothing but sit in jail. Is that justice? Based on this example, it can be argued that there is a difference between punishment and justice as the former does not always meet the demands of the latter. The pertinent question to consider then is how can punishment also meet the demands of justice in this case? I would submit that the answer demands that the perpetrator of the crime has to willingly agree to make amends and seek reconciliation with his victim. He needs to admit guilt, seek forgiveness and make recompense for his crime - perhaps some sort of ongoing financial obligation/support when he leaves prison and hopefully gets a job. The point is justice is only accomplished when the perpetrator participates in making amends toward the one he is guilty of offending.

    I believe this human scenario approximates the picture of how God deals with us justly for our sins against Him. There is Biblical precedent for this view of punishment/justice throughout the scriptures. For example Ex 22:1 states: "If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and kills it or sells it, he shall repay five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep." In the NT, Zacchaeus promises Jesus that he will restore fourfold those whom he has defrauded. These instances exemplify that justice demands not just the aspect of punishment but also recompense in order to make amends and fully bring about God's justice.

    Given this scriptural evidence, we can apply this to the concept of an eternal hell. Being condemned to eternal punishment in the lake of fire certainly constitutes as punishment but it does not bring about God's justice because the inhabitants in the lake of fire have no opportunity to admit their guilt, seek forgiveness and seek to make recompense as it is "already too late." They must suffer the consequence of their sin forever. There is no chance for amends and reconciliation with God and therein lies the weakness with the retributive eternal punishment of hell. The view of the lake of fire that is most consistent with the scriptures and the character of God is the view where the lake of fire is for the purpose of chastisement where sinners recognize their sin against God, repent and seek forgiveness from the Lamb. Of course they, like all of us cannot repay their debt against God except that they believe in the sacrificial atonement of Jesus to make recompense for their sin. Like the rapist example it requires willing participation on their part as guilty sinners before a holy God. This reconciliation model of the lake of fire requires that the sinners must endure the purifying fires of hell in order that they may seek reconciliation with the Lamb who is also present in the lake of fire (Rev 14:10) so that one day God's ultimate goal of reconciliation is achieved. "For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross" (Col 1:19-20) which results in "that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil 2:10-11).

    Reconciliation with God is impossible with the eternal conscious torment view of hell as well as with the annihilation view of hell as those in the lake of fire are never reconciled to God. So in answer to your question, I would tell the person that God will chastise his/her mother in the lake of fire according to her deeds (Rev 20:13) but since God is just, her sentence is proportional to her deeds and is not forever as reconciliation with God will one day occur. Therefore it behooves the person to trust in Jesus now so as to avoid ending up in the lake of fire.
     
  10. martymonster

    martymonster Veteran

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    Firstly, there is no such thing as eternal torment....for anyone.
    Secondly, even if there was, no one would be there yet, because there has been no first or second resurrection.
     
  11. HatGuy

    HatGuy Some guy in a hat

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    I would just say something like, "I'm sorry to hear you lost your mom. I didn't know her, so I can't say anything about whether she is in hell or not. But I'm speaking to you about this and this is really a decision for you to make."
     
  12. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

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    Certainly not. I have read many NDE's and I am 100% convinced most of them are real accounts of encounters with God. Both people who have been to hell, and those who have been to heaven. Both given a second chance at life.
     
  13. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    Romans 3:23, Romans 3:10, Romans 5:8, John 3:16, 2 Corinthians 5:21.
     
  14. Petros2015

    Petros2015 Well-Known Member

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    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    Another way might be this -

    ===
    Matthew 25:31-40

    “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

    “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, "I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.”

    ===

    So it seems to me that Heaven and Hell have one thing in common.

    They are both full of very surprised people ;)
     
  15. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    If someone is going to get all bent our of shape because people who did not accept Christ as their savior are going to miss out on paradise....then they are not in the right frame of mind or have the right attitude for salvation for themselves.

    What is needed, for salvation, is an understanding of the simple fact that we are all guilty of sin and need the free gift of salvation. If you are going to get angry and bitter due to this simple concept.. over a loved one... and throw your own soul away.. it's not logical.

    That's like saying... So, to ride the subway, I need a token... and my mom couldn't ride cause she didn't have a token and had to walk 60 blocks... so... I"m not going to get a token either.
     
  16. crossnote

    crossnote Berean Supporter

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    "There is no such thing as a good person, she needed a Savior like every one else."
     
  17. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    If you went to someone to spread the "Good news" Why would the subject of burning fire come up? Why would the fear of being throw into it, if they dont believe you, be mentioned?

    I say, if we are asked this question after proclaiming the good news, then maybe our news isnt that good.....and maybe we should cease from sharing it until our message becomes more liberating.....more true.......more "good"
     
  18. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I know some Christians just want to candy coat the reality that there is a place for those who reject God and His Son Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Jesus Christ was to the point on this subject that a separation exists.

    26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’

    I tried to speak to my partners mother about Jesus on her death bed and she wanted nothing to do with Him. When she was young she was involved with Anton Levay the Satanist. So I am pretty sure she is not with the Lord but in the "great chasm". And yes, I did tell my partner she was in hell.
    Blessing
     
  19. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    My response would be something like "it's for God to decide if she accepted him, not you."
     
  20. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Some Protestant churches may tell you that, however the one Church Jesus Christ founded, to which He promised the fullness of God's truth, never states that any particular person is in Hell, because we simply don't know. That is entirely up to God, and we can't claim to know His mind.
     
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