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Featured "Oh. So you're saying my Mother is in hell?"

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Kenyon Ledford, Mar 24, 2019.

  1. Kenyon Ledford

    Kenyon Ledford Active Member

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    No, but sometimes I think praying for the lost can help ease their suffering. Like getting money on the books in jail or something.
     
  2. Romans 8

    Romans 8 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't simply made it up, I read this in my studies. I think it can help the suffering of the people left behind more so. God Bless friend.
     
  3. Tropical Wilds

    Tropical Wilds Lord, beer me strength...

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    “No, absolutely not. I’d never say she was in hell and I’d never trust anybody who’d say they know if she is or isn’t in hell. I’m sure your mother was and is a wonderful person and I have faith that God recognized and recognizes that. Also, I’m sorry for your loss.”

    Then if you want to privately put this person and their deceased mother in your prayers, do so.
     
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  4. Ignatius the Kiwi

    Ignatius the Kiwi Newbie

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    A lot of my ancestors are probably in hell. Familial love does not abdicate our responsibility to the truth. If any of our family members are in hell, they are only there because they rejected God.
     
  5. salt-n-light

    salt-n-light Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If she truly didn't believe in Christ, then yes that is her fate.
     
  6. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    No one has the right to say whether a person goes to hell or not. The day of judgment has not arrived yet. God is the final judge and He reserves judgment for every person outside of Christ for that great day. God is the only Person who knows the hearts of people. If there is just a spark of grace in a person, God can see it, and that will be just as valuable to Him as great grace that exists like a fire in a person's heart.

    So, to say that a person is going to hell is to preempt God's judgment and usurping His right to be the sole and final judge of every and any person.
     
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  7. lismore

    lismore Legend

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    "Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25)

    God is the ultimate righteous judge, all judgement can be safely given over into his hands. God Bless :)
     
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  8. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

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    It is always a matter of dealing with facts, we can't use fiction to comfort the disgruntled. However the facts are not as damning as one might think. Firstly there is the possibility that the person went to hell, for it is true that if a person has not Christ, they will end up in hell. Jesus made it clear that salvation is by him alone, and we need to take the narrow way, to deny our own lusts, and live rightly before God.

    However to comfort such a person we need to look to death it's self. I know of two NDE's near death experiences, where the person did not have a relationship with Jesus, but while they were dying God revealed himself to them, and they were saved from hell. To the outsider if they had of remained dead, the family would have thought they were in hell, when in reality they made it to heaven. We don't know what conversations, and conversions, happen in dying moments between God and His creation. But God is not unjust, as the bible says "God is not unjust to remember your labour of love".
     
  9. Unofficial Reverand Alex

    Unofficial Reverand Alex Look up Jason Evert on YouTube; he changed my life Supporter

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    The Early Church saw salvation as a process, as healing, the development of mere man into a divinely enriched being. And yes, as many have already said, the end result is God's choice. Trust.

    I think it would be very beneficial, at this point, to bring up Divine Mercy. We must remember that Mercy is unfathomable with God, and we see this played out time & time again throughout the Bible. Hosea, Joel, Judges, Peter, the Good Thief on the Cross, the Centurion who fell before Jesus just after the Crucifixion...perhaps no message is repeated more thoroughly throughout the Bible than "God loves us & wants to take us back, no matter what." Remember, mercy is greater than justice (James 2:13).
    The Divine Mercy Message and Devotion

    Peace be with you, and with all the departed, whose faith God alone has known. "May the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that day..." (2 Timothy 1:18)
     
  10. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    If she is, she wouldn't want you to join her.
     
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  11. His student

    His student Active Member

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    You tell them that you do not have the authority to make that determination. Only God knows the heart of a person and only God can know for sure everything they did in their life spiritually including their relationship to the gospel that He has given to all men and women.

    Then you reiterate exactly what that gospel is and tell them that their personal status before God is between them and God and that any further issues they have along the lines of the salvation of other people must be discussed with Him personally once you have a personal relationship with Him wherein you can discuss any and every issue of life.

    You've not judged the status of their loved one and you have not compromised the gospel message.

    If they press the issue - you tell them that, as you told them already, that's between them and God and that He is more than willing to discuss it with them once they are standing in right relationship with Him.

    If they push it more - you may not tell them what you are doing - but you must not cast any more pearls before swine who are just looking to argue with you.
     
  12. Toro

    Toro Oh, Hello!

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    You have free will.

    The futility of doing so depends on what you chose to believe.

    I happen to agree that to pray for the dead is useless....because our time to choose Christ is before death... not after.

    Did the story of the rich man and Lazarus not imply and even state directly that the rich man would have loved to choose where Lazarus was? Yet, he was denied.

    Is it sad that MANY will be lost? Is it not sadder still that many of those lost will have thought themselves saved?

    Matthew 7:21-23

    Why would many come to Him saying "Lord Lord" unless there was recognition?

    It is a sad reality that MANY more souls will be lost than saved.

    It is why we MUST fight the good fight and continue to run the race... because there are no "second chances" after death.... otherwise we wouldnt need fight this fight or run the race enduring til the end.

    However God gives us so very many chances to turn to Him and away from the world... every day that you wake up is one more chance to enter His kingdom by turning to Him rather than to the world.

    The amount of days we all have vary by the person, but most of us have many, many chances.... the older we live to be... the many many more chances we are given than others.

    It may not be pleasant to think of loved ones possible destination... but they as we have a choice to make.. every day.

    It is why no one is better than another, but some are simply "better off"

    I wont say you are wrong and I am right as I do not wish to fight with my brother or sister....and this is an issue that has heavy roots in emotion as none of us want to think a loved one could end up anywhere but in Heaven... and is at best more speculative on both sides of the fence.


    Ultimately you were given free will and if you are convinced in your own mind then do so.

    I simply see it as more nessicary to pray for the souls of the living than the souls of the dead as the souls of the living 100% assuredly have a chance to be saved, while the souls of the dead, the efforts are debatable.

    I dont believe you put your salvation in jeopardy by doing so, so if you feel inclined to do so, that is between you and the Father. Praying for the dead is no more my business than any other conversation you have with the Father... what you choose to share is, again your business.
     
  13. Cement

    Cement Active Member

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    I would not sugar coat it. People need the raw truth no more lies no more half truths that the devil can twist. I would just tell them that God would wipe every tear away in the hearafter.
     
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  14. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    You handle it by not evangelising with a message that says "believe or rot in hell".
     
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  15. No Username Found

    No Username Found Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think that honesty is the most important thing. Yes, it is true that we do not know the spiritual condition of the mother prior to the moment of death. Therefore, we cannot judge. However, we cannot deceive the person either. We ought to tell them that there is no other way to salvation except by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. None! So although we cannot judge, we can say with conviction and truth that if she did not accept the Gospel, there is no other place she can be other than in Hell. I know that is a hard pill to swallow. But hopefully it will be a wakeup call for the person to repent and not suffer the same fate.
     
  16. StephenDiscipleofYHWH

    StephenDiscipleofYHWH Well-Known Member

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    I would say she is currently sleeping in the grave/sheol and that on the day of Judgement she will be judged either righteous and receive everlasting life or be judged unrighteous and receive everlasting torment in the lake fire(called the second death). I would then add that I could not know whether she was saved or damned as only God knows what was in her heart at the time of her death.
     
  17. ilovejcsog

    ilovejcsog The way....

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    God gives us choices while we are alive. If we do not choose him why should anyone be able to usurp are choices after we die? Those who wish to make our choice of savior after we die should be LDS.
     
  18. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I pray for the lost because i know what it feels like to be lost.
     
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  19. Ing Bee

    Ing Bee Son of Encouragement Supporter

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    There are things we can know from the Lord (via scripture) and there are things that are "above our pay grade".
    • Our time on Earth seems to be the only opportunity we have to enter in relationship with the Father through the Son. (Hebrews 9:27-28).
    • Jesus is the judge (Acts 17:31)
    • Yahweh is a righteous and perfect judge (Genesis 18:25)
    • Yahweh sees the heart, not just the surface (1 Samuel 16:7)
    • No one is portrayed as being repentant who has rejected God (see the Rich Man in the story of Lazarus. Gnashing of teeth is strongly associated with anger and hatred in the bible. The Greek word for 'weeping' appears 9 times in the New Testament. All but two are directly connected to eternal punishment. The other two are connected to deep grief, but not necessarily repentence.)
    • There will be some surprises! (Matt. 7:22)
    • Judgement is 'scaled' based on works done in the body. (Rev. 20:12-14)
    • God is hyper-relational: He draws people in (John 6:44) and responds to all who call on Him (Acts 2:21).
    • He has revealed himself in Creation so that no one has an excuse (Romans 1:20).
    As other's have said in the thread, we are not the judge. The gospel offers a "righteousness by faith apart from the law" (Romans 3:21) by which no one will be justified (Gal. 2:16).

    On a positive note, I think the conversation presented in the O.P. can be avoided. Presenting salvation as a 'thing' you get or a 'place' you go is wrong-footed.
    • Eternal life is a relational connection to the author and source of life through the Son, by the Holy Spirit. It is interpersonal in nature, not transactional (1 John 5:11, John 3:36, Titus 3:7, John 17:2). To put it into a modern phrase: it's who you know, not what you know.
    • The interpersonal connection: God reveals himself fully in Christ's death Hebrews 11:1-2, Romans 5:8, we respond with personal trust in what he has revealed (John 3:16-17).
    • Yahweh is the only source of life, without a vital connection to Him, there is no life from any other source. (1 John 5:12)
    • People are free to respond or not. But their choice will be honored
    God only and always does what is perfectly just, good, and right. Jesus "tasted death for everyone" so God is not an aloof curmudgeon. All mercy that can be given will be given and more.

    To the angry person whose mother has died I would say,
    "Your mom made her decisions in life and God knows her perfectly and he loves her more than anyone else could. He will give her perfect justice though we can't know what that will be. But you have your decisions to make too. What will you do with Jesus?
     
  20. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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    By pointing out that the standard for entrance into God's kingdom is God's own holy perfection to which no one measures up. However "good" one's mother might have been, compared to God, she was not anywhere near good enough. People tend to compare themselves to other fallible humans, usually finding the worst examples by which to make their comparisons. But this isn't God's standard. He is Himself the sole standard to which He holds us all. To such a standard we all fall well short. And this is why we so desperately need the Saviour.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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