Oh so many questions

[Lexi/is/a/JesusFreak]

because Jesus said he was divine. he gave us an opportunity for a life in heaven all u have to do is accept it. its that simple.

 

[Sparkalinda]

Sorry for my lengthy absence but things are a bit crazy around report card time.

To answer a couple of questions

Sparky,

Could you please specify maybe why the divinity of Christ does not seem reasonable? Might make it easier to answer your question.

In my mind there is no quantitative proof that Christ’s divinity is reasonable. Yes there is the bible, which professes as such, but to me it is kinda like taking People Magazine for hard fact.

Do you get everything, I mean everything correct in life? I mean, you never have bad thoughts? Never get upset in traffic jams, get jealous of somebody or irritated with your kids/family/ friends/ workmates etc?

Heck no! I am a walking mistake. I do not claim to be perfect but when it comes to how to treat others I have a pretty good track record for doing the right thing. I believe the secret to a good life is treating others as well if not better than you treat yourself.

As for getting irritated with others on a rare occasion but not often. I work with drug dealers, prostitutes, gang members and various other kinds of social misfits. There is no room in my life to be judgmental and or irritable in my line of work.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

I believe the secret to a good life is treating others as well if not better than you treat yourself.

How do you account for those who treat others well, yet have miserable lives of their own? If your "secret" were true, then we could all just follow the rules and stay within the lines and be perfectly happy.

 

[Sparkalinda]

How do you account for those who treat others well, yet have miserable lives of their own? If your "secret" were true, then we could all just follow the rules and stay within the lines and be perfectly happy.

Please interpret?

I ain’t too bright as well as a walking mistake.

 

[Crashfreak]

This was also posted in the Newbee forum but hasn't gotten enough attention for my likeing.

Ok here are my next questions which my cause a bit of a frenzy but hey! Ize is just a lernin.

So why is the divinity of Jesus so important? Why can you not believe that Jesus was a great man and follow his teachings but not accept his divinity.

Which is more important his teachings or his Divinity?


Sparky

If you accept Jesus' teachings then you logically have to accept his divinity. Why? Because part of his teaching was that he was the Son of God. Part of the holy trinity if you wish. So you cannot pick and choose what you like from his teachings and ignore the rest. Either the whole or none at all. So you either believe Jesus never existed, that he was a mad man and did not rise from the grave, or you believe in his teachings and that he is the Son of God.

You cannot seperate part of his teaching because you don't like it. It would be like going through the theory of relativity and instead of believing/understanding the thing as a whole, you pick and choose what you like....if you do this the theory is worthless. Only if complete is it worthwhile.

 

[sinner/SAVED]

Please interpret?

I ain’t too bright as well as a walking mistake.

You wrote:

I believe the secret to a good life is treating others as well if not better than you treat yourself.

If this is the secret to the "good life", then we all, by our own effort, could live the "good life". If this is true, then why don't we all just put forth that effort and experience the "good life"? I'm pretty sure that we all have a knowledge of what is "the right thing to do" in almost every situation we are in. But, possessing this knowledge, why do we most of the time fail to "do the right thing"?

 

[Sparkalinda]

You wrote:



If this is the secret to the "good life", then we all, by our own effort, could live the "good life". If this is true, then why don't we all just put forth that effort and experience the "good life"?

Good question!

 

[Sparkalinda]

You wrote:
why do we most of the time fail to "do the right thing"?

I find it very hard to believe that people do wrong more than they do right. Certainly there are some who do wrong more than right but common if this were the norm our world would be an unbearable place to live.

Even my little hoodlums at school can have good days and demonstrate uncommon levels of righteous

Behaviour.

What astounds me is this resignation some people have to a notion that everyone does more wrong than right.

 

[Crashfreak]

I find it very hard to believe that people do wrong more than they do right. Certainly there are some who do wrong more than right but common if this were the norm our world would be an unbearable place to live.

Even my little hoodlums at school can have good days and demonstrate uncommon levels of righteous

Behaviour.

What astounds me is this resignation some people have to a notion that everyone does more wrong than right.

You live in a fairly well established 1st world country. Has good systems and government in place....most of the world don't have the luxury that you are used to every day. A large portion of the world sometimes can be extremely unbearable to live in.

 

[Sparkalinda]

You live in a fairly well established 1st world country. Has good systems and government in place....most of the world don't have the luxury that you are used to every day. A large portion of the world sometimes can be extremely unbearable to live in.

Very true Crash very true

 

[sinner/SAVED]

I find it very hard to believe that people do wrong more than they do right. Certainly there are some who do wrong more than right but common if this were the norm our world would be an unbearable place to live.

Even my little hoodlums at school can have good days and demonstrate uncommon levels of righteous

Behaviour.

What astounds me is this resignation some people have to a notion that everyone does more wrong than right.

Here's a challenge. Try for one week to do absolutely nothing wrong. Everything you do will have to be totally unselfish. Everything you do will have some benefit for society or others regardless of any discomfort it causes you. I've tried and can only make it a few minutes.

 

[L.A.W.]

You can view Yahushua to be just any other man, or you can believe Yahushua is the Son of God who came in the flesh to Redeem us. Depending on how you view Him, the sacrifice He made for us will have a different meaning.

If Yahushua was just a zealous man of God who died for His belieth in vain, then we should worry for we are all surely going to perish. But because Yahushua is the Son of Man, the Word of God who was made flesh who came to Redeem any soul in this world who believes in Him may not perish, but have life and more of it.

One reason why so many souls will end up in Hell is because they blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sparkalinda]

Here's a challenge. Try for one week to do absolutely nothing wrong. Everything you do will have to be totally unselfish. Everything you do will have some benefit for society or others regardless of any discomfort it causes you. I've tried and can only make it a few minutes.

I get the feeling people think I am claming to be a perfect person but I am not. I am as imperfect as the next guy is but I certainly make a conscious effort to do good and be good.

The second ting I am saying is that humanity is not inherently evil and to look upon oneself as such is doing you a disservice. I believe it almost becomes a cop-out for some. "I am a sinner, I will sin but since I believe in god I am saved therefore have no incentive to change or do better."

I see "good Christians" on a daily basis living self-interested lives with nary a thought about others but they feel as long as they go to church they have their bases covered. Meanwhile I work with some of the neediest people around, paid and unpaid (by choice) and will get told frequently by these same "Good Christians" that I am crazy for doing so.

Now following the logic at hand, it is me who will burn in hell simply because I have not professed my devotion to Jesus and those good Christians who are filling their pockets and stepping on others to do it will be heading to the pearly gates simply because they attend a church once a week and say grace at dinner.

Something is wrong here?

 

[food4thought]

Your logic:
I am a pretty good person because I do more good than bad.

Reality:
No your honor, I don't deserve prison for murdering the man, I get angry at people all the time, but I let them live far more often than I kill them!

See? The only difference is the severity of the crime. But in God's economy, every failure deserves eternal seperation from Him, because He is holy and perfect. So God sends His Son into the world to die for your sins and make you able to be with Him forever. You then reject that offer, and say "I do far more good than bad [read as: I let far more people live than I kill]".

Now, the Christian goes to heaven because our sentence has been fulfilled in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, where God placed our punishment of death and seperation from God upon His own Son, who had never experienced the seperation of Spirit from God. In this one monumental penalty, justice has been fulfilled. The reason justice is fulfilled by this act is due to the Divine nature of Jesus Christ, and I will explain this further on a seperate post.

Do all people who are born again suddenly become changed people? No. God chooses to work out our change through time, and this is for His purposes that we may or may not be able to discern. Is everyone who says they are a Christian really a Christian? No. Only God trully knows whether a man/woman has believed in their hearts or is fooling themselves and/or others.

To summarize:
Christians go to heaven not because they are superior people, but because they have received from God their pardon. Non-Christians go to hell not because they are worse people than Christians, but because they have told the judge "No, I don't want to accept the pardon, I think that I will fulfill my own sentence."

I know this is kind of hack work of a deep subject, but I am on limited time, so I hope this helps. If any of this is unclear, please ask.

 

[Sparkalinda]

Your logic:
I am a pretty good person because I do more good than bad.

Reality:
No your honor, I don't deserve prison for murdering the man, I get angry at people all the time, but I let them live far more often than I kill them!

See? The only difference is the severity of the crime. But in God's economy, every failure deserves eternal seperation from Him, because He is holy and perfect. So God sends His Son into the world to die for your sins and make you able to be with Him forever. You then reject that offer, and say "I do far more good than bad [read as: I let far more people live than I kill]".

That is quite the quantum leap form regular run of the mill shmoe doing his/her best every day and failing on occasion to murderer. Both are equal in the eyes of the lord?

The murderer who says he/she accepts Jesus, does all the right good christian things other than murdering someone on occasion will find salvation yet the regular shmoe who hurts no one and does his/her best to live a "good life" will burn in hell? hmmm some economy, guess I am running a big deficit.

Do all people who are born again suddenly become changed people?

I am assumig you are refereing to the "Good Christians" I mention. These pepl have been church going since childhood they were born into it not born again.

 

[food4thought]

Are you familiar with the ten commandments?
I. You will have no other Gods before Me (YHWH, or the LORD)
II. You will make no idols to worship
III. You will not take the LORD's name in vain
IV. You will keep the Sabbath (seventh day of the week) holy
V. You will honor your mother and father
VI. You shall not murder.
VII. You shall not commit adultery.
VIII. You shall not steal.
IX. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
X. You shall not covet

Stop and consider how you line up to these ten commandments. These are the most prominent of God's commands in the Old Testament. This is the law, breaking any one of these commandments was punishable by death.

Ever lied? Ever stole something, even a little thing? Ever chose to serve your own desires regardless of what God thought? Ever looked at a man/woman and wanted him/her?

If we were to really take the time to think, and we were willing to be honest about our actions/hearts, we would have to say yes to every one of the things on this list, and thus by our own admission would be a lying, thieving, idol worshipping, covetous person. Still think you are pretty good? By who's (or, more specifically, Who's) standard?

Jesus said that if you looked at a man/woman with lust, you have already commited adultery with them in your heart. He also said, if you have hated someone in your heart, you have already killed them in your heart.

So now, we are adulterous, murderous, lying, thieving, idol worshipping, covetous people by our own admission. And yet we insist on thinking that we are somehow "Ok", or "good people". Strange lot are we...

If God is just, and He most definitely is, how can He justify sending us to heaven? Only by providing a just sentence for our sins. This is where Jesus comes in... and the rest is posted above.

Still doing my homework on the Divine Nature of Jesus... please be patient, I don't want to mis-represent what happened at the cross. I will post soon... maybe not tonight, but definitely by tommorow night.

In the meantime, consider what it meant to be a Jewish man and claim to be the Jewish Messiah. Read Isaiah 9:6.

 

[VCman]

is man good? Let us think and reflect upon this. Definitions are always based on a constant idea. If the basis of your definition is not constant, then the definition is not constant either. So look at good. In order for something to be good, they must not be bad. If something that was good was also bad, how good would good be? This is why good is a stand alone idea. There can be good without bad, but there cannot be bad without good.

so again, is mankind good? Why do you think we are good? Because we do good things? I have noticed that nobody is inherantly good. Let us look at mother Theresa, a righteous woman. Why did she do the things she did? Because she was good? No, she did it because her religion told her to. I have noticed that there is always motivation behind our good works. If we were truly good, there would be no motivation, we would do it without thinking. Just the fact that there is a sinful taint in this world shows me that we are not good.

-VC

 

[Sparkalinda]

is man good? Let us think and reflect upon this. Definitions are always based on a constant idea. If the basis of your definition is not constant, then the definition is not constant either. So look at good. In order for something to be good, they must not be bad. If something that was good was also bad, how good would good be? This is why good is a stand alone idea. There can be good without bad, but there cannot be bad without good.

so again, is mankind good? Why do you think we are good? Because we do good things? I have noticed that nobody is inherantly good. Let us look at mother Theresa, a righteous woman. Why did she do the things she did? Because she was good? No, she did it because her religion told her to. I have noticed that there is always motivation behind our good works. If we were truly good, there would be no motivation, we would do it without thinking. Just the fact that there is a sinful taint in this world shows me that we are not good.-VC

So let me get this straight. I am a bad, nasty, horrible person and will never be a good person with or without god, just that with god I will be rewarded in the end. hmmm may be I should start going to church and rob senior citizens for a living if it doesn't matter what I do.

 

[VCman]

well, I havent told you the other half of the truth. Heaven is good, and hell is not. Heaven is meant for those perfect, hell is for those who are not perfect. From what it seems, humankind cannot get into heaven, and will therefore go to hell. If this were the end of the line, I too would be in the same boat that you are in. I would regard this as stupid and walk away from Christianity, but I have not. Christ came down, as God’s begotten Son, and lived among men. His life was perfect on this earth. He was fully God and fully man. Thus, He became the bridge that mankind could walk across to be with God.

Hell is for anyone that is not made perfect in Christ. God cannot stand sin. The Bible even said when Christ took on the sin of the world, God had to turn his back on Him. He turned away from His own begotten Son because of the sin of the world. Heaven is for those who are perfect. This would again trouble me if it werent for the freedom of this gift. No matter what, God’s hand is stretched out. Our lives may go through many, many troubles but God will always be there. He created you and longs for you to recognize it.

-VC

 

[Amanda_4ever]

i agree with that heaven is an absolutely amazing place as it says in the bible it is actually amazing!!!!!