Oh Hell

[pinacled]

Thank you for this
Ronit

Consider the living before thanking the dead for cursing The Most High.

 

[pinacled]

The darkness or blindness is temporary only for those that reach out and cry for salvation.

The broad path that leads to destruction is for those in denial of such a need.
Hence the delusion and destruction of a soul that the enemy desires. And further marks its own.

All disciples of Yeshua, sons and daughters, are called to carry a message.
If peace is not recieved.
Dust the ashes from the feet..

Blessings Always

 

[Ronit]

Consider the living before thanking the dead for cursing The Most High.

What? I did Not curse the most High?

 

[Ronit]

What? I did Not curse the most High?

I take real umbrage with that sir !

 

[pinacled]

I take real umbrage with that sir !

You chose to thank a post from yrs ago that cursed The Most High.

And a response to defend against an old snare is in order.

If umbrage is your concern.
You have a lot to learn about discipline and study of Torah.

Leave the dead for the dead.
Meaning.
Thank the living who fight against the doctrine of devils.


Blessings Always

 

[Ronit]

You chose to thank a post from yrs ago that cursed The Most High.

And a response to defend against an old snare is in order.

If umbrage is your concern.
You have a lot to learn about discipline and study of Torah.

Leave the dead for the dead.
Meaning.
Thank the living who fight against the doctrine of devils.


Blessings Always

How did the person curse the Most High?
I want to know?
And If the person did. I will retract.
But I do not Understand.
But I do know this I do not want to fight with you or anyone else.
Blessings to you
Ronit

 

[pinacled]

How did the person curse the Most High?
I want to know?
And If the person did. I will retract.
But I do not Understand.
But I do know this I do not want to fight with you or anyone else.
Blessings to you
Ronit

Seek first the kingdom and lean on The Lord in spirit knowledge(milk) and understanding(honey).

With discernment test the spirits.

Blessings Always

 

[Ronit]

Seek first the kingdom and lean on The Lord in spirit knowledge(milk) and understanding(honey).

With discernment test the spirits.

Blessings Always

Ok. I'm trying to do that.
Blessings
Ronit

 

[visionary]

one more thing... about "hades" supposedly meaning "unseen"

why doesn't Strong's Concordance list that as a definition, do you think? Here's what's listed under "hades":
1. name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
2. Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
3. later use of this word: the grave, death, hell

Hades in Greek means the Unseen.

 

[visionary]

The word hell is of Saxon origin, being derived from the word helan, which has also been spelled hele, helle, hell, and heile. In its original form, it simply meant "to cover, conceal, and hide." Thus, the expression "to hele over a matter" meant "to cover it." Another Saxon derivation is the word holl, which refers to a cavern or to the unseen place of the dead, which, in turn, has led some commentators to state that the word hell refers to "hole," which means "grave."

 

[visionary]

one more thing... about "hades" supposedly meaning "unseen"

why doesn't Strong's Concordance list that as a definition, do you think? Here's what's listed under "hades":
1. name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions
2. Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead
3. later use of this word: the grave, death, hell

What Is Hades? Possibly As A General Term For The Unseen Realm Of The Dead. Hades is always connected with death, never with life. The context will determine its meaning. It does not refer specifically, or exclusively, to the place of punishment. Like Sheol, it is an intermediate place - it never refers to the place of final punishmen

 

[visionary]

What about this Scripture?

Matthew 25 Read This Chapter
25:34 Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
25:35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
25:36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'
25:37 "Then these righteous ones will reply, 'Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink?
25:38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing?
25:39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?' 25:40 And the King will tell them, 'I assure you, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, F143 you were doing it to me!'
25:41 "Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, 'Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his demons!
25:42 For I was hungry, and you didn't feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn't give me anything to drink.
25:43 I was a stranger, and you didn't invite me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me no clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn't visit me.'
25:44 "Then they will reply, 'Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?'
25:45 And he will answer, 'I assure you, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.'
25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life."

What does it mean if there's no hell, such as a place of eternal damnation for the lost?

Time frame. Judgement Day, the great Yom Kippur.

 

[visionary]

What about this Scripture?

Matthew 25 Read This Chapter
25:34 Then the King will say to those on the right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
25:35 For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home.
25:36 I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.'
25:37 "Then these righteous ones will reply, 'Lord, when did we ever see you hungry and feed you? Or thirsty and give you something to drink?
25:38 Or a stranger and show you hospitality? Or naked and give you clothing?
25:39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?' 25:40 And the King will tell them, 'I assure you, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, F143 you were doing it to me!'
25:41 "Then the King will turn to those on the left and say, 'Away with you, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his demons!
25:42 For I was hungry, and you didn't feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn't give me anything to drink.
25:43 I was a stranger, and you didn't invite me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me no clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn't visit me.'
25:44 "Then they will reply, 'Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?'
25:45 And he will answer, 'I assure you, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.'
25:46 And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life."

What does it mean if there's no hell, such as a place of eternal damnation for the lost?

Eternal punishment. If Satan is gone, then all the need for eternal damnation has done its job.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Now you ask for is the torment forever? Maybe a better question is how are they all consumed/devoured and yet are torment for ever?

Isaiah 66:17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

We do understand that they are consumed by fire.

Ezekiel 22:31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord God.

We know the consummation is also not a flash in the pan.

Zechariah 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Even Satan is turned to ashes.

Ezek. 28:18 “By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you.

If Satan is consumed to ashes, who is mightier than him to continue to exist in the eternal flames? Satan is know to walk on fiery stones.

EZEK 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

 

[visionary]

Ezekiel 28:16-19

Some say that this applies to some human king from the past. So tell me, how many human kings are called "a covering cherub” or how many human kings are found in “the midst of the fiery stones” and walked within “the mountain [nation] of God”? This bad angel will be destroyed by internal combustion. And that will be the end of hell, hell fire, eternal damnation, sin, and the king of sin.

 

[Direct Driver]

When I tell believers about God's victorious love and grace, that God through Yeshua "will draw all men" (John 12:32); "all men to justification of life" (Rom. 5:18,19); "in Yeshua shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22-28); "to head up all in the Yeshua" (Eph. 1:10); "That in the name of Yeshua every knee shall bow...every tongue should be acclaiming that Messiah Yeshua is Adonai, for the glory of God" (Phil. 2:10,11); "Who will have all men to be saved" (1 Tim. 2:4); "We have our hope set on the living God Who is the Savior of all men" (1 Tim. 4:10); "The all is created through Him and for Him" and "Through Him to reconcile the all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross" (Col. 1:16, 20). When I declare God's glorious plan to restore all back to Himself, someone asks, "But what about hell?"

Yeshua never used the English word "hell" and He never used any Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic word meaning what most people believe "hell" means. For years I have asked preachers, "How many times is the word "hell" in the Bible, and how many Hebrew and Greek words are translated "hell" in your King James Bible?" None of them answered the question.



That the King James translators did not understand what "Sheol" and "Hades" meant is proven by the following:

"Out of the belly of hell (Sheol) cried I." (Jonah 2:2) Verse 1:17 tells us he was "in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights." Where was Jonah-in Hell or in a fish? If "Sheol" is translated "unseen" we have no problem. Jonah was in the "belly of the fish" and was "unseen." We know that Jonah was "in the belly of the fish for three days and three nights." (Jonah 1:17) This agrees with the words of Jesus, for He said, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish." (Matt. 12:40) In the Greek Septuagint, (the Hebrew Old Testament translated into Greek around 200 B.C.) we find the Greek adjective aionios translated "forever" in Jonah 2:6 in the King James Bible. It is obvious that aionios "forever" cannot mean more than three days and three nights.

There is a problem here.

In 1 Cor. 15:55, the King James' Greek text contains the Greek word "Hades." They translated the Greek word "Hades" into the English word "grave," but they gave an alternative translation "Hell" in the margin. In Rev. 20:13,14, The Greek Text contains the word "Hades" which they translated into the English word "Hell." In the margin they put the alternative translation of "grave." It should begin to appear to the objective reader of the King James Bible that the translators were uncertain as to the meaning of the words "Hades" and "Sheol."

The modern reader of a King James Bible printed in this century will not know this because many of the modern editions of the KJV have removed the marginal readings the original King James contained.

"Hades" occurs 11 times in the King's Greek Text (often misnamed "Textus Receptus"). When we study "Hades," let us remember that according to the KJV, Yeshua was in "Hell." (see Acts 2:27, 31) Obviously Yeshua' soul was not in "hell-fire."

Another Greek word "Gehenna" occurs 12 times in the New Testament; 11 times in the Gospels and one time in the Epistle of James. Yeshua used "Gehenna" about 7 times. Some of the occurrences of "Gehenna" are in parallel passages, that is, they refer to the same event. "Gehenna" is the Greek form of the Hebrew "ge-hinnom." It literally means "valley of Hinnom" Sometimes it is referred to as the "valley of the sons of Hinnom." In the Old Testament "Tophet(h)" also refers to this place. (See Young's Concordance under Hinnom) "Gehenna" is a valley that lays on the west and southwest of Jerusalem. In the valley, Israel offered up its children as a burnt offering to a god who came to be known as Moloch.

In Jeremiah, we hear God speaking to Jeremiah regarding this sacrifice, "And they have turned to Me the back, and not the face;though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not listened to receive instruction. but they set their abominations in the house which is called by My name, to defile it. And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin." (Jer. 32:33-35) Jeremiah says this valley would one day be called the "Valley of slaughter." (Jer. 7:30-33) This Scripture had its literal fulfillment in 70 A.D. at the destruction of Jerusalem.

King Josiah, in his days, desecrated this place by tearing down all the idols, crushing or burning them, and burning human bones on them (probably those of the priests who presided over these rituals). A Jew was not allowed to touch anything that touched a dead human being. Please note, it was God's own people who were doing the burning, not God, and He said such a thing never entered His mind. Also note, not one single time in the entire Old Testament was this word "Ge-hinnom" translated "hell."

In Yeshua' day, this valley was a city dump very much like modern dumps-always being filled, and therefore always having something for the fire to consume and worms to eat. ("where the worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.) It was a place fit only for waste. Should a Jew, God's "chosen" people ever be given a burial in "Gehenna," it would be the most humiliating thing that could ever happen to him. It would be like saying that one's life here on earth was completely worthless, fit only for the dump. For Yeshua to tell a religious Jew, such as a Pharisee, that his life, his religious works, his devotion to God were fit only for the city dump, was to insult him in the worst possible way. Jews went to great efforts to make their funerals great events. Some even hired professional "mourners" to cry at their funeral. Herod was going to have the leaders of Israel killed on his day of death so that Israel would mourn on his death. This is the kind of mentality Jews had regarding their life and they way they should leave this world. Even today, one will hear Jews say that the most important thing a person owns is his name. They will go to great lengths to keep their name alive. They will name buildings, start foundations, etc., to keep their name alive. Many, who no longer believe in a resurrection feel this is the only way they can stay alive beyond the grave-to have their name remain in the minds of future generations.

Returning to "Gehenna," one can walk through this valley even today and return unscathed by its fires and untouched by the worms (maggets) which actually consumed a good part of the religious Priestly community of Israel in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Their bodies were piled up and their blood ran down into this very valley which Jesus prophesied would be the disgraceful burial place for hundreds of thousands of Jews of that very generation Yeshua was speaking to.

Whatever this valley represented in the Old Testament must be carried over to the New Testament. Nowhere in the Old Testament is this place translated "Hell" and nowhere in the Old Testament is there a hint that this place referred to a place of eternal punishment after death. The word which Yeshua referred to most often which the King James Bible unfortunately chose to render "hell," in the New Testament, but did not do so in the Old Testament, is this word "Hinnom" or Ge-hinnom (valley of Hinnom) or "Ge-ben-hinnom" (valley of the sons of Hinnom) which was transliterated into the Greek as "gehenna." A thorough study of this place in the Old Testament will dispel much myth regarding its significance. The Scriptural references for such a study are: Josh. 15:8; 18:16; 2 Kings 9:7; 15:3,4; 23:10, 36, 39; Ez. 23:37,39; 2 Chr. 28:3; Lev. 18:21; 20:2; Jer. 7:30-32; 19:2-6; 32:35. Remember, this place is never referred to as "Hell" in the Old Testament. References to this very same place in the New Testament are: Matt. 5:22; 5:29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15; 23:33; Mark 9:43; 9:45; 9:47; Luke 12:5; James 3:6. It should be mentioned that most of these references come from Yeshua' mouth and every reference to this word "gehenna" was addressed to God's own people, not to the nations around Israel.

The Greek word "tartarus" occurs one single time in the entire Bible and it is found in 2 Peter 2:4. It is the place where sinning messengers (angels) are reserved unto judgment.

The English word "Hell" occurs 54 times in the King James Bible, and is a translation of 4 Hebrew and Greek words. Not one of the words has a meaning even closely related to the meaning theologians have given the English word "Hell." Many Bibles translated in the last one hundred years do not contain the English word "Hell." Almost all of them have found no justification for translating "Sheol" into "Hell." Therefore, almost all English Bibles do not contain any references to our modern concept of "Hell" in the Old Testament. From Genesis to Malachi, "Hell" has disappeared as a result of better translating. Many Bibles have eliminated the word entirely.

Returning back to the subject of "Hell," we have found that the Hebrew word "Sheol" should never have been translated "Hell." The Jews today, whose Bible consists of the Old Testament do not translate it "Hell" because in no way does "Sheol" correspond with the images and doctrines the church associates with the word "Hell." The Greek word "Hades" is the equivalent of "Sheol" and has the same meaning.

The Greek mythological place the Greeks called "Tartarus" occurs one time in the Biblical text to denote a holding place for messengers (angels) "til" judgment which indicates an eventual release from this place.

Try this: Believe What the Jewish Apostles Taught -- Why Conditional Immortality Is True and Biblical

There is also a facebook group called "rethinking hell" that gets into this heavily.

 

[visionary]

It is amazing how God's love shows through understanding life and death.

 

[visionary]

Gehenna is mentioned in the Tanak in several places, notably Josh. 15: 8, 18: 16; Neh. 11:. 30, 2 Chronicles 28:3; 33:6; 2 Kings; and Jeremiah 7:31, 19:2-6, 32:35.

According to the Hebrew Bible, pagans once sacrificed their children to the idol Moloch in the fires in Gehenna. It is said that priests would bang on their drums (תופים) so that the fathers would not hear the groans of their offspring while they were consumed by fire. The Prophets condemned such horrid practices of child sacrifice toward Moloch, which was an abomination (2 Kings, 23:10), and they predicted the destruction of Jerusalem as a result:

And you shall go out to the Ben-Hinnom Valley which is at the entrance of the Harsith Gate, and you shall call there the words that I will speak to you.
And you shall say; Hearken to the word of the Lord, O kings of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; so said the Lord of Hosts, the God of Israel; Behold I am bringing evil upon this place, which whoever hears, his ears will tingle.
Because they forsook Me and they estranged this place and burnt incense therein to other gods, which they had not known, they, their forefathers, and the kings of Judah, and they filled this place with the blood of innocent people.
And they built the high places of Baal to burn their children with fire as burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command, neither did I speak nor did it enter My mind.

 

[visionary]

i'm searching for
"Josh. 15:8; 18:16; 2 Kings 9:7; 15:3,4; 23:10, 36, 39; Ez. 23:37,39; 2 Chr. 28:3; Lev. 18:21; 20:2; Jer. 7:30-32; 19:2-6; 32:35"
and some of these verses don't have any of ""Hinnom" or Ge-hinnom (valley of Hinnom) or "Ge-ben-hinnom" (valley of the sons of Hinnom)" in them... I'm kind of confused. Am I supposed to be seeing these words exactly or a description of what happened there perhaps?

It is a noun derived from the Hebrew phrase גיא הנום‎ (gy' hnwm), which means “Valley of Hinnom.” The Valley of Hinnom was a ravine along the southern slope of Jerusalem (Josh 15:18; 18:16).
Joshua 18:16
The Lexham English Bible
x of the mountain, which is opposite the Valley of Ben Hinnom,y which is in the valley of Rephaim to the north; then it goes down the valley of Hinnom to the slope of the Jebusitesz to the south, and then it goes down to En Rogel.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Tartarus may be the bottomless pit and the center of the Earth. Seismographs of the Earth's core may indicate a void there. So there may literally be a bottomless pit in the center of the Earth. No molten iron core after all. But a hole with literally no bottom.

 

[chunkofcoal]

There are other "places" mentioned in the new testament - like Tartarus, a prison, a pit, etc. It's a little unnerving when you study up on them - I think part of it is because we tend to think about heaven, hell, and earth. Just the idea of other "places" is a bit mind-blowing.