Oh Hell

[visionary]

There are other "places" mentioned in the new testament - like Tartarus, a prison, a pit, etc. It's a little unnerving when you study up on them - I think part of it is because we tend to think about heaven, hell, and earth. Just the idea of other "places" is a bit mind-blowing.

I know that even today, many places are called hell as it is a discription of a mental and/or/both physical place of torture.

 

[chunkofcoal]

I know that even today, many places are called hell as it is a discription of a mental and/or/both physical place of torture.

Have you ever looked into anything about the seven earths? It is believed that like as God made seven heavens, He also made seven earths. One on top of the other, though whether they are underground, other-dimensional, or both, is up to debate.
I thought it was a strange idea until I re-read Revelation 9 and it talks about something coming up out of a pit. Like I said, it is quite unnerving!
There are supposedly beings/creatures that inhabit the other earths - also a strange concept, but the idea of beings/creatures or even ones ancestors emerging from underground, from a hole in a cavern, etc., is found in a lot of cultures.
I've been reading about the Jewish idea of seven earths, but as I was poking around this morning, I also discovered there is apparently the same idea in the Quran.
Gehenna is mentioned in the teaching about the seven earths.

 

[visionary]

Have you ever looked into anything about the seven earths? It is believed that like as God made seven heavens, He also made seven earths. One on top of the other, though whether they are underground, other-dimensional, or both, is up to debate.
I thought it was a strange idea until I re-read Revelation 9 and it talks about something coming up out of a pit. Like I said, it is quite unnerving!
There are supposedly beings/creatures that inhabit the other earths - also a strange concept, but the idea of beings/creatures or even ones ancestors emerging from underground, from a hole in a cavern, etc., is found in a lot of cultures.
I've been reading about the Jewish idea of seven earths, but as I was poking around this morning, I also discovered there is apparently the same idea in the Quran.
Gehenna is mentioned in the teaching about the seven earths.

Sounds like something that should have its own thread. I am interested but this is the first I have heard about it.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Sounds like something that should have its own thread. I am interested but this is the first I have heard about it.

Ok. I'm just learning about it myself.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Paul mentions a third Heaven. Traditionally there are 3 Heavens and probably 3 Hells(underworlds). That makes 7 worlds including Earth.

 

[visionary]

Paul mentions a third Heaven. Traditionally there are 3 Heavens and probably 3 Hells(underworlds). That makes 7 worlds including Earth.

I suppose. We do also call the clouds sail -in the sky - heaven, the stars and galaxies - heaven and where God lives heaven. We also call mental anguish - hell, physical torment hell, and the place where bad souls go hell.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

The people Israel always understood that there were heavens (plural). It's why they are called "shamayim" (שָּׁמַ֖יִם).

We also call mental anguish - hell, physical torment hell, and the place where bad souls go hell.

"Hell" is often the result of a mistranslation in the B'rit Chadashah. Gehinnom is the place where souls are destroyed forever and with finality. And yet certain "scholars" decided to use the same word "hell" (ᾍδης), to (in error) describe both the place where the dust of man goes, waiting for resurrection, and Gehinnom. Messiah Yeshua was quite careful in noting the differences.

"Hell" is analogous to the Hebrew word "She`ol" (שְׁאול). When שְׁאול is found in Tanakh, it is translated in the Septuagint as ᾅδης, pretty consistently. Where the concept of She`ol is expounded on significantly is in the book of Iyov (Job), which is, overall, a very informative book about life, death, free will, forgiveness, repentance, and the sovereignty of HaShem.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The people Israel always understood that there were heavens (plural). It's why they are called "shamayim" (שָּׁמַ֖יִם).

The waters above and the waters below...
Genesis 1:6–8.

 

[chunkofcoal]

The people Israel always understood that there were heavens (plural). It's why they are called "shamayim" (שָּׁמַ֖יִם).



"Hell" is often the result of a mistranslation in the B'rit Chadashah. Gehinnom is the place where souls are destroyed forever and with finality. And yet certain "scholars" decided to use the same word "hell" (ᾍδης), to (in error) describe both the place where the dust of man goes, waiting for resurrection, and Gehinnom. Messiah Yeshua was quite careful in noting the differences.

"Hell" is analogous to the Hebrew word "She`ol" (שְׁאול). When שְׁאול is found in Tanakh, it is translated in the Septuagint as ᾅδης, pretty consistently. Where the concept of She`ol is expounded on significantly is in the book of Iyov (Job), which is, overall, a very informative book about life, death, free will, forgiveness, repentance, and the sovereignty of HaShem.

I was reading that there are supposedly levels (sections?) of hell. And "the lowest hell" is mentioned in Deuteronomy 32:22 and Psalm 86:13.
Reading that passage in Deuteronomy, I'm wondering if the fire of hell is lit by God's anger. So the wicked are burned by God's anger.
Just speculating.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

I was reading that there are supposedly levels (sections?) of hell. And "the lowest hell" is mentioned in Deuteronomy 32:22 and Psalm 86:13.
Reading that passage in Deuteronomy, I'm wondering if the fire of hell is lit by God's anger. So the wicked are burned by God's anger. Just speculating.

Non-Messianic speculation is often haphazard and ill-advised. She`ol is the grave, from its shallowest surface to its lowest depth. There is no "fire of hell". The fire is in Gehinnom.

I often find that one-verse mentions are done very carelessly and without regard for the surrounding context of the surrounding verses (and even chapters). Maybe, that's because certain people don't realise that there were no chapter and verse notations in the original texts. In the verse from Devarim, some focus on "hell" and miss that the fire of HaShem's anger was kindled against Yeshurun and why. In the verse from the Tehillah, people focus on "hell" and miss that a man is faithfully grateful in advance for the sure rescue that he relies on from his God, despite his enemies' efforts.

The Bible is more than a etymological study ...

 

[chunkofcoal]

Non-Messianic speculation is often haphazard and ill-advised. She`ol is the grave, from its shallowest surface to its lowest depth. There is no "fire of hell". The fire is in Gehinnom.

I often find that one-verse mentions are done very carelessly and without regard for the surrounding context of the surrounding verses (and even chapters). Maybe, that's because certain people don't realise that there were no chapter and verse notations in the original texts. In the verse from Devarim, some focus on "hell" and miss that the fire of HaShem's anger was kindled against Yeshurun and why. In the verse from the Tehillah, people focus on "hell" and miss that a man is faithfully grateful in advance for the sure rescue that he relies on from his God, despite his enemies efforts.

The Bible is more than a etymological study ...

I find your post insulting. I am a Messianic and I've been posting here since 2004.
But I will leave this thread.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

I am a Messianic ...

That's not what you said.

 

[chunkofcoal]

That's not what you said.

Were you always a "Messianic Ger Toshav"? How about a "not Christian"?

Have a nice day.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Another Greek word "Gehenna" occurs 12 times in the New Testament; 11 times in the Gospels and one time in the Epistle of James. Yeshua used "Gehenna" about 7 times. Some of the occurrences of "Gehenna" are in parallel passages, that is, they refer to the same event. "Gehenna" is the Greek form of the Hebrew "ge-hinnom." It literally means "valley of Hinnom" Sometimes it is referred to as the "valley of the sons of Hinnom." In the Old Testament "Tophet(h)" also refers to this place. (See Young's Concordance under Hinnom) "Gehenna" is a valley that lays on the west and southwest of Jerusalem. In the valley, Israel offered up its children as a burnt offering to a god who came to be known as Moloch.

I agree with you that neither Hades nor Sheol is hell but Gehenna is a reference to the lake of fire AKA hell. Every time Jesus mentions Gehenna He is referring to hell.

“Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭10:28‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Don't rely on Wikipedia.

UBS Dictionary:


Basicaly Hades is the Greek equivalent of Sheol.

Yes but Hades only refers to the section of torment in Sheol where the condemned go. It doesn’t refer to the place of paradise where the righteous go.

 

[GedaliahMaegil]

Yes but Hades only refers to the section of torment in Sheol where the condemned go. It doesn’t refer to the place of paradise where the righteous go.

Are you teaching or asking a question ... ?

 

[visionary]

Ancient Jews traditionally did not believe the soul could exist at all apart from the body. On the contrary, for them, the soul was more like the “breath.” The first human God created, Adam, began as a lump of clay; then God “breathed” life into him (Genesis 2: 7). Adam remained alive until he stopped breathing. Then it was dust to dust, ashes to ashes.

Ancient Jews thought that was true of us all. When we stop breathing, our breath doesn’t go anywhere. It just stops. So too the “soul” doesn’t continue on outside the body, subject to postmortem pleasure or pain. It doesn’t exist any longer.

The Hebrew Bible itself assumes that the dead are simply dead—that their body lies in the grave, and there is no consciousness, ever again.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Ancient Jews traditionally did not believe the soul could exist at all apart from the body. On the contrary, for them, the soul was more like the “breath.” The first human God created, Adam, began as a lump of clay; then God “breathed” life into him (Genesis 2: 7). Adam remained alive until he stopped breathing. Then it was dust to dust, ashes to ashes.

Ancient Jews thought that was true of us all. When we stop breathing, our breath doesn’t go anywhere. It just stops. So too the “soul” doesn’t continue on outside the body, subject to postmortem pleasure or pain. It doesn’t exist any longer.

The Hebrew Bible itself assumes that the dead are simply dead—that their body lies in the grave, and there is no consciousness, ever again.

Pharisees believed in the bodily resurrection. It is also believed the soul (neshama) enters the body 40 days after conception.

 

[visionary]

Pharisees believed in the bodily resurrection. It is also believed the soul (neshama) enters the body 40 days after conception.

I wonder why 40 days?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I wonder why 40 days?

From the Talmud Yevamot 69a and Nidda 30b. There is no agreement with differing opinions from at conception, 40 days after conception and at birth (with it leaving at death).