Oh Hell

[DanielRB]

Sorry...double-post.

 

[stone]

Shalom all,

I think perhaps the reference to "ten or eleven days" that Stone was thinking of was perhaps this:



Is this it?

In Messiah,

Daniel

That sounds like it, is that from a king james version? My bible is a king james version, i'm planning to purchase the complete jewish version in a couple of days. I remember reading the word trial, reason i ask, sure sounds about the same.

Monday and Tuesday nights i do volunteer work, rebuilding my grandmothers house, it was a disaster, been working on it for about 2 years now, almost done. My wife doesn't like for me to work on it, she says i've been saying, "almost done" for about a year now. Reminds me, i've got to google up some wireing schematics. Nearly blew myself up last night. heh.

so i didn't have much time last night to search.

 

[visionary]

Notice there is a difference between how Satan is destroyed and how the rest are...

Ezekiel 28:18
By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching.

Where as the people are thrown into the midst of the fire... Not only is Satan and his angels thrown in, but the fire consumes him from the inside out.

From what I understand... this fire and brimstone is really quite quick...[given that S&G are an example] mercy even in condemnation...

2 Peter 2:6
if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

 

[visionary]

The subject has come up again from another thread.

 

[visionary]

I think that this presentation does answer the view on our Loving God and the fiery end to the wicked...

 

[visionary]

Keep reading scripture.. and pretty soon you will be able to talk scripture just like the rest of us... Your spirit talks but it is yet in a foreign language to us here.

 

[visionary]

But learn know it all. I SEE. At least we know the serpent not blind like the babes. But they are know it alls and you do trust them with your lives some very wise evil known the wares. Unawares actually but whom's am I that I should divide words before beast. Meow.

Oh hell

 

[anisavta]

Oh hell

Yeah! That would be my thought.

 

[visionary]

One of the many problems with understanding Hell is the forever and ever part..

Is "forever and ever" without end?

The phrase "forever and ever" is used both of describing God's eternal worth and the duration of eternal damnation. The exact same Greek phrase is used in each of the verses in the table below.

forever and ever

aionas ton aionon
"ages of the ages"

From this we can see a portion of time "ages" set aside for this cleansing of sin and sinners from God's kingdom.

 

[visionary]

Now I do not relate "hell" with "burning for endless ages without being consumed" but I do see that the burning punishment is within God's commands and doings. He does believe it is a proper punishment for wickedness.

 

[Avodat]

Now I do not relate "hell" with "burning for endless ages without being consumed" but I do see that the burning punishment is within God's commands and doings. He does believe it is a proper punishment for wickedness.

So what do you make of Isaiah 66:23-24

 

[visionary]

Isaiah 66:23-24
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
23 “Every month on Rosh-Hodesh and every week on Shabbat, everyone living will come
to worship in my presence,” says Adonai. 24 “As they leave, they will look on the corpses
of the people who rebelled against me. For their worm will never die, and their fire will never be quenched; but they will be abhorrent to all humanity.”

I believe you are looking at the fire that is never quenched yet scripture says

Hebrews 10:27
but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, of raging fire that will consume the enemies.

. I always go to the fire of S&G... as my example.

.2 Peter 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly

and it seems pretty clear to me that the fire destroys the people, not saying that they wouldn't suffer the burning just like anyone today that is on fire.

2 Peter 3:7 It is by that same Word that the present heavens and earth, having been preserved, are being kept for fire until the Day of Judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.

 

[Avodat]

I believe you are looking at the fire that is never quenched yet scripture says . I always go to the fire of S&G... as my example.and it seems pretty clear to me that the fire destroys the people, not saying that they wouldn't suffer the burning just like anyone today that is on fire.

So is Isaiah not Scripture?

 

[yedida]

So there's no 'hell', such as a place of eternal suffering?

Rev. puts an end to "a place of eternal suffering," the Lake of Fire, which, itself w/b destroyed.
Rev. 22:14 describes those who reside within the walls of that great city, New Jerusalem. Verse 15 tells us that there are people alive, not deemed worthy to live within that city - actually they are described just as the people who were cast into the Lake of Fire with one exception, those who went to the Lake of Fire were unbelievers! Those in verse 15 are all those other things but believers as well....chew on that one for awhile.....

 

[visionary]

So is Isaiah not Scripture?

Yes, but as Isaiah says... it is the fire that does not extinguish... and once you put other scriptures with this... it makes more sense... just as we see now, so shall we see it when it happens, fire consumes....this is not going to be a painful burning bush story forever. We can be like Daniel's friends and be in the midst of the fire, but it will not consume us, nor will it be painful experience. The wicked are consumed, reduced to ashes as scripture says.

Malachi 4:3
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

 

[Avodat]

Yes, but as Isaiah says... it is the fire that does not extinguish... and once you put other scriptures with this... it makes more sense... just as we see now, so shall we see it when it happens, fire consumes....this is not going to be a painful burning bush story forever. We can be like Daniel's friends and be in the midst of the fire, but it will not consume us, nor will it be painful experience. The wicked are consumed, reduced to ashes as scripture says.

But scripture cannot contradict itself. Either G_d is wrong and we cannot place any value on any part of Scripture or... we are wrong and have not properly understood his word. I go with us not properly understanding his word.

Let's carry on exploring...

 

[visionary]

But scripture cannot contradict itself. Either G_d is wrong and we cannot place any value on any part of Scripture or... we are wrong and have not properly understood his word. I go with us not properly understanding his word.

Then the logical conclusion is that we have not put the puzzle piece in correctly. That is why I state that the verses that speak about the fire that does not extinguish have nothing to do with the bodies that they burn up to ashes.

 

[yedida]

I believe you are looking at the fire that is never quenched yet scripture says . I always go to the fire of S&G... as my example.and it seems pretty clear to me that the fire destroys the people, not saying that they wouldn't suffer the burning just like anyone today that is on fire.

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. Why is it that christianity chooses to make all unbelievers the wicked? There are hundreds of millions who have lived who have not believed on Yeshua that were not "wicked"..... Many were/are far more godly than many believers.

 

[visionary]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here. Why is it that christianity chooses to make all unbelievers the wicked? There are hundreds of millions who have lived who have not believed on Yeshua that were not "wicked"..... Many were/are far more godly than many believers.

Does that make you glad that it is the Lord who judges. One thing is for sure...

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

and

John 10:27
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

which tells me that claiming or knowing his name are not necessary to be his sheep in his fold.

 

[Avodat]

Does that make you glad that it is the Lord who judges. One thing is for sure...

and
which tells me that claiming or knowing his name are not necessary to be his sheep in his fold.

Romans 2:12-16 is a better response and clearly includes those who, because of being mentally or physically unable to understand G_d's word, are not necessarily excluded.