Offering warm greetings, and a question...

[CIYA]

You are welcome. Should I plug it in now? The AI could work on the problem overnight, over an hour or so. Also, there are more than 66 books in the Bible according to Catholic and Orthodox traditions. We will have to see what the machine says about that.

If you would like to, sure.

I do acknowledge the deuterocanonical Catholic and Orthodox books, but I tend to stick with just the original 66 as these are the books that don't have arguments against their canon-ity.
Some deuterocanonical books I've actually referenced a few times because I find them interesting, such as 1 & 2 Maccabees, which offer thoughts about some of the history during the Bible's "Silent Period". This is why I added the anecdote about potential historical value of other books, even if I personally don't include them in the undisputed canon.

 

[AlexB23]

If you would like to, sure.

I do acknowledge the deuterocanonical Catholic and Orthodox books, but I tend to stick with just the original 66 as these are the books that don't have arguments against their canon-ity.
Some deuterocanonical books I've actually referenced a few times because I find them interesting, such as 1 & 2 Maccabees, which offer thoughts about some of the history during the Bible's "Silent Period". This is why I added the anecdote about potential historical value of other books, even if I personally don't include them in the undisputed canon.

That is understandable. The Maccabees I have not delved into that much. I have made a few devotionals on Sirach though. Anyways, I will get back to you on this tomorrow. Got to run the machine now. The answer should be ready soon, but I need every last bit of computing power to analyze your list, so I will have to close all webpages.

 

[CIYA]

That is understandable. The Maccabees I have not delved into that much. I have made a few devotionals on Sirach though. Anyways, I will get back to you on this tomorrow. Got to run the machine now. The answer should be ready soon, but I need every last bit of computing power to analyze your list, so I will have to close all webpages.

Alright cool, looking forward to the results.

Just so there isn't any misunderstanding: Basically I define "canon" as books that are confirmed to be divinely inspired by God, and were written by someone who was sanctioned by God to write on His behalf.

If I don't consider something canon, it doesn't necessarily mean that I believe it is false.
That will depend on personal research and analysis, which each person has right to determine on their own. I've just viewed it as better to be safe than sorry when determining what God wrote and what He may not have written directly.

 

[Michie]

I agree lol. If someone can direct me to which specific discussion thread this type of conversation belongs to I'll make a thread and we can all continue conversation there.

General Theology and some of the forums within it might be helpful to you. Click here: General Theology you can also ask a staff member to move this thread to the appropriate forum.

God bless you!

 

[AlexB23]

Alright cool, looking forward to the results.

Just so there isn't any misunderstanding: Basically I define "canon" as books that are confirmed to be divinely inspired by God, and were written by someone who was sanctioned by God to write on His behalf.

If I don't consider something canon, it doesn't necessarily mean that I believe it is false.
That will depend on personal research and analysis, which each person has right to determine on their own. I've just viewed it as better to be safe than sorry when determining what God wrote and what He may not have written directly.

Here are the results from the machine. At least we both like the Bible, regardless of whether it contains 66 books or 73 books, and we both believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

The machine did say that your Christian Introverted Young Adults group has a good statement of faith.

And what the machine found in common among the three major branches of Christianity, from an earlier post: What beliefs are universally accepted across all denominations?

 

[CIYA]

General Theology and some of the forums within it might be helpful to you. Click here: General Theology you can also ask a staff member to move this thread to the appropriate forum.

God bless you!

Thanks Michie. I'll make a post in one of the "Normal Threads" in General Theology and continue from there, since this topic doesn't seems to fit in any of the major thread groups. If a mod wants to move it somewhere else after that, they are free to.

 

[Michie]

Thanks Michie. I'll make a post in one of the "Normal Threads" in General Theology and continue from there, since this topic doesn't seems to fit in any of the major thread groups. If a mod wants to move it somewhere else after that, they are free to.

I think it should be fine there.

 

[Clare73]

Sure thing.
This is what I have:

1. The original 66 books of the Bible in its initial text are the literal inerrant Word of God.
Not all translations are created equally, and it is left up to the individual to deduce, at their own discretion and research, what version(s) of the Bible should be utilized.
(Deut. 4:22; 2 Tim. 2:15; 2 Tim. 3:16; 1 Pet. 1:20-21; Rev. 22:18-19)
2. God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and has perfect wisdom.
(Deut. 32:4; Job 38-41; Isa. 46:9-10; Ps. 139:16; Prov. 2:6; Heb. 4:13)
3. God exists as a Trinity: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit.
All three predate creation, are parts of the same whole Being, and possess equal authority.
(Gen. 1:26; Gen. 1:2; Deut. 6:4; Isa. 9:6; John 1:1–5; John 10:30; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 2:8-9; 1 John 5:7-8)
4. Every person who has committed a conscious sin in the sight of God have fallen short of earning salvation. They must accept God's gift of atonement through Jesus's sacrifice, and express genuine repentance, to receive salvation and avoid "damnation".
(John 3:16, 36; John 14:6; Rom. 3:23; 1 John 1:9; Acts 17:30; Eph. 2:8; Rev. 3:19)
5. The Word of God is the ultimate source of morality.
What God deems as evil is evil, and what God deems as good is good. We are expected as Christians to continue seeking "goodness" over "evil". Consciously refusing to do so puts us at risk of "mocking" God's gift to us, and we may suffer potential consequences.
(Isa. 5:20; Matt. 7:21; Rom. 3:31; Rom. 12:2; 1 Cor. 3:12-13; Gal. 6:7; 2 Tim. 3:16; Rev. 2:12-16)

6. At some time in the future, God will cleanse and remake the earth, and the faithful will literally reign on earth with Jesus
for 1,000 years. (2 Pet 3:1-7; Rev. 20:4; Rev. 21:3)

7. Humility, respect, peace, discernment, and a desire to uplift are our most important tools to settle any divisions or conflicts that arise between us.
We reserve the right to shut down discussions that are not being driven by these virtues.
(Matt. 7:12; Gal. 5:22-23; Gal. 6:2; Phil. 2:3-4; Eph. 4:2; 1 Thess. 5:21; 1 John 4:1; 1 Pet. 2:17; 1 Pet. 5:5)


It's not intended to be exhaustive, just a general idea of distinguishing belief.

The duration (1,000 yrs) of your #6 is not NT doctrine, but is prophetic riddle not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one interpretation..

 

[CIYA]

Here are the results from the machine. At least we both like the Bible, regardless of whether it contains 66 books or 73 books, and we both believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

The machine did say that your Christian Introverted Young Adults group has a good statement of faith.

View attachment 354222

And what the machine found in common among the three major branches of Christianity, from an earlier post: What beliefs are universally accepted across all denominations?

View attachment 354223

Moving this conversation to Talking about a Statement of Faith I wrote

You'll see my response there.

 

[CIYA]

The duration (1,000 yrs) of your #6 is not NT doctrine, but is prophetic riddle not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one interpretation..

Hi Clare, I address this in my response I posted to Alex on the other thread I just created, feel free to respond there.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Sure thing.

This is what I have:


1. The original 66 books of the Bible in its initial text are the literal inerrant Word of God.
Not all translations are created equally, and it is left up to the individual to deduce, at their own discretion and research, what version(s) of the Bible should be utilized.
(Deut. 4:22; 2 Tim. 2:15; 2 Tim. 3:16; 1 Pet. 1:20-21; Rev. 22:18-19)

2. God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and has perfect wisdom.
(Deut. 32:4; Job 38-41; Isa. 46:9-10; Ps. 139:16; Prov. 2:6; Heb. 4:13)

3. God exists as a Trinity: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit.
All three predate creation, are parts of the same whole Being, and possess equal authority.
(Gen. 1:26; Gen. 1:2; Deut. 6:4; Isa. 9:6; John 1:1–5; John 10:30; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 2:8-9; 1 John 5:7-8)

4. Every person who has committed a conscious sin in the sight of God have fallen short of earning salvation. They must accept God's gift of atonement through Jesus's sacrifice, and express genuine repentance, to receive salvation and avoid "damnation".
(John 3:16, 36; John 14:6; Rom. 3:23; 1 John 1:9; Acts 17:30; Eph. 2:8; Rev. 3:19)

5. The Word of God is the ultimate source of morality.
What God deems as evil is evil, and what God deems as good is good. We are expected as Christians to continue seeking "goodness" over "evil". Consciously refusing to do so puts us at risk of "mocking" God's gift to us, and we may suffer potential consequences.
(Isa. 5:20; Matt. 7:21; Rom. 3:31; Rom. 12:2; 1 Cor. 3:12-13; Gal. 6:7; 2 Tim. 3:16; Rev. 2:12-16)

6. At some time in the future, God will cleanse and remake the earth, and the faithful will literally reign on earth with Jesus for 1,000 years.
(2 Pet 3:1-7; Rev. 20:4; Rev. 21:3)

7. Humility, respect, peace, discernment, and a desire to uplift are our most important tools to settle any divisions or conflicts that arise between us.
We reserve the right to shut down discussions that are not being driven by these virtues.
(Matt. 7:12; Gal. 5:22-23; Gal. 6:2; Phil. 2:3-4; Eph. 4:2; 1 Thess. 5:21; 1 John 4:1; 1 Pet. 2:17; 1 Pet. 5:5)


It's not intended to be exhaustive, just a general idea of distinguishing belief.

I'd change #1 to "The 73 canonical books of the holy scriptures are our primary foundation for faith and life and it to them that we go for answers to difficult questions, but we rely finally and fully on the wisdom given by the Holy Spirit for the proper understanding of what the holy scriptures teach."

And I'd change #3 to "And Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Eternal and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.

So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Coeternal together, and Coequal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped."

You also ought to add #3a to teach about the incarnation, "we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.

God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire."

The other numbered points will need more work, but without a clear statement of what is believed about the Blessed Trinity and the Incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ the statement of faith is incomplete.

 

[CIYA]

I'd change #1 to "The 73 canonical books of the holy scriptures are our primary foundation for faith and life and it to them that we go for answers to difficult questions, but we rely finally and fully on the wisdom given by the Holy Spirit for the proper understanding of what the holy scriptures teach."

And I'd change #3 to "And Faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity. Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Ghost is all One, the Glory Equal, the Majesty Co-Eternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father Uncreate, the Son Uncreate, and the Holy Ghost Uncreate. The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Eternal and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.

So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not Three Gods, but One God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not Three Lords but One Lord. For, like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, so are we forbidden by the Catholic Religion to say, there be Three Gods or Three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father, and of the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

So there is One Father, not Three Fathers; one Son, not Three Sons; One Holy Ghost, not Three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is afore or after Other, None is greater or less than Another, but the whole Three Persons are Coeternal together, and Coequal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshiped."

You also ought to add #3a to teach about the incarnation, "we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man.

God, of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the substance of His mother, born into the world. Perfect God and Perfect Man, of a reasonable Soul and human Flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who, although He be God and Man, yet He is not two, but One Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into Flesh, but by taking of the Manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by Unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one Man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into Hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into Heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies, and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire."

The other numbered points will need more work, but without a clear statement of what is believed about the Blessed Trinity and the Incarnation of the Lord Jesus Christ the statement of faith is incomplete.

Hi Xeno, trying to move the discussion to this thread: Talking about a Statement of Faith I wrote. You'll see my response there.