Offending Someone

[SallyNow]

See post 8

That's great; a person can berate you, be offensive, etc, and you are not offended. You are able to call people things like "homo" because it's their fault if they find it offensive. That's nice, isn't it?

No, it's not nice. Yes, some people do get offended just for the sake of being offended... but that doesn't mean it is okay to be callous or to be offensive just for the sake of being offensive.

There is a line to be drawn with humour... the line of laughing with a person or laughing at them, the line of going from things they will joke about themselves to things that are simply cruel to joke about.

JesusWalks78, it concerns me that you neither wish to know, or care that you may be offending (or may have offended) another person.... and this makes me wonder if you really understand what Jesus was all about.


God said to Love your neighbor as yourself.... and in case you were wondering what that meant, see 1 Corinthians 13, then explain to me how not caring that you have offended someone (even if you don't understand how) is being in any way Christ-like?


Just an observation.

Exactly... very well put.

 

[JesusWalks78]

Who would add fat that needs to be cut away?

I dont add the fat is my point, I offer meat......then people see that fat in their imagination.

Quite obviously for the person you are talking to it does. What is reasonable to do with this knowledge depends on your intentions.

Well I rarely stop doing what I do for the pleasure of others....people need a thicker skin.

You are the one who tries to communicate someone and is misunderstood. I would call that having a problem. Ymmv.

I do have a problem....English is not my first language, my written english is not quite up to scratch.

You are sending a strangely mixed message. On the one hand you publicly offer your opinion on a forum without anyone explicitly having asked you (which in itself indicates that you have a desire to be heard and understood), on the other hand you encourage the same audience to ignore you.

No I encourage those that see malice and stuff, where none exists to ignore me.

I want to communicate freely, I dont want to communacate with the cry babies.

I see no problem with not taking offense from a certain term, and at the same time avoiding terms that are likely to be taken for an offense.

There is no problem with others taking offense, its not my problem....listen if I said homo do you know what i am talking about?

On another note, my breathing or non-breathing is not transmitted on a virtual message board. So it´s impossible for you to take offense from it.

Merely a question as to how far this would go, must we stop everything so as not to offend people.

Your interest in your audience seems very limited. On the other hand you assume that it has an interest in your message.

I never made any such claim that they were interested.....however judging from responses I get to each of my posts...I would say they are pretty interested.

 

[JesusWalks78]

Because it's about context. If I call somebody a "homo" they probably know I'm joking around and don't intend it to be a homophobic insult. When other people say it, then it's a different story, because often it is meant to be used in a derogatory, homophobic fashion. If somebody I am not familiar with were to call me that, then yeah, I'd be really angry, because past experience has taught me that it is most likely not meant to be something other than a slur.

Likewise, gay men can often get away with calling each other "[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]." Because they know what is meant behind the usage of the word. But if a stranger says it, it is taken as a slur because, quite frankly, it probably is.

So here I said "Homo" on this thread.

How can you tell if it is said in malice?

I come from a different culture, it isnt an insult...we do have insults for homosexuals (we have insults for pretty much everyone, just like everybody else) and homo is not one of them.

 

[JesusWalks78]

This is an excellent discussion - very good thread.




JesusWalks78, it concerns me that you neither wish to know, or care that you may be offending (or may have offended) another person.... and this makes me wonder if you really understand what Jesus was all about.


God said to Love your neighbor as yourself.... and in case you were wondering what that meant, see 1 Corinthians 13, then explain to me how not caring that you have offended someone (even if you don't understand how) is being in any way Christ-like?


Just an observation.

Thats the point I said it without malice or insult, how it is received is a character flaw of the other person.

Also please show how i do not love anyone? Either show it or retract the statement.

 

[Adriac]

There is no problem with others taking offense, its not my problem....listen if I said homo do you know what i am talking about?

I would think you do not respect homosexuals— an opinion which is confirmed by your refusal to augment your manner even slightly.

If it really weren't an issue, there wouldn't be a problem with not using that word. The fact that you continue to use it — even dragging it into other discussions — indicates that you do in fact intend disrespect.

 

[JesusWalks78]

That's great; a person can berate you, be offensive, etc, and you are not offended.

It is great, i dont cry like I a baby...no.

You are able to call people things like "homo" because it's their fault if they find it offensive. That's nice, isn't it?

It is their problem, not mine.

No, it's not nice.

Prove it?

Yes, some people do get offended just for the sake of being offended...

Yeah, like the people who choses the hetero lifestyle who get annoyed when I say Homo.....they are not even gay.

but that doesn't mean it is okay to be callous or to be offensive just for the sake of being offensive.

You fail to see my point, i am not saying it as an insult, so I am not meaning to be offensive.

 

[quatona]

I dont add the fat is my point, I offer meat......then people see that fat in their imagination.

You won´t sell your meat if it looks too fatty to the people. No matter what you would like to sell to people, and no matter what the factual fat content of the stuff is.

Well I rarely stop doing what I do for the pleasure of others....people need a thicker skin.

That´s two different questions.
One is what you can do, and the other is what the others can do.
You expect them to do what you think they need to do. How´s that for asking them to do something for your pleasure?

I do have a problem....English is not my first language, my written english is not quite up to scratch.

Same here. I take it for a reason to be particularly careful with what I say, because chances are that I am not fully aware of the subtleties in the meanings of the words. Since I am the person speaking, it is clear that I have an interest in communicating something, and for me this means I will try to do everything possible that the intended message is received without any unnecessary noise or distortion added on the way.

No I encourage those that see malice and stuff, where none exists to ignore me.

Why would you want to be ignored? Why do you insist on using terms that are misunderstood if there are others that would say the same and are not misunderstood? Do you get anything out of being misunderstood?

I want to communicate freely, I dont want to communacate with the cry babies.

Once you start using such categories, I have to wonder what makes someone who feels his freedom in danger because a certain terminology of his is not received well, less of a cry baby than those who don´t like that terminology.

There is no problem with others taking offense, its not my problem

Again, depends on what you want to achieve when communicating.

....listen if I said homo do you know what i am talking about?

Firstly this is not about me. I don´t take offense.
Secondly, I know that the term "homo" is negatively connotated in common American use of language.

Merely a question as to how far this would go, must we stop everything so as not to offend people.

Yes, the textbook example of a slippery slope fallacy, as I said.
Nobody said we must do everything so as not to offend people - we are talking about the use of commonly negatively connotated terms here.
Furthermore, I have never said anything about someone having to do something. I have merely asked question as to whether it is really a good idea to do things without need that people will predictably feel offended by. Like everything this is not a matter of yes vs. no, but relative. I personally don´t find it a good idea to stop breathing because someone might feel offended by it, but I find it a good idea (especially because it helps my purposes in communicating with people) not to use negatively connotated term that my communication partner is likely to feel offended by, if I can say the same thing with running into this communication barrier.

I never made any such claim that they were interested.....however judging from responses I get to each of my posts...I would say they are pretty interested.

Well, if you are happy with the results of your communication, then there is no reason for you to change anything about it. Never change a winning team.

 

[JesusWalks78]

I would think you do not respect homosexuals— an opinion which is confirmed by your refusal to augment your manner even slightly.

Certainly I have presented other posts that show quite the opposite.

If it really weren't an issue, there wouldn't be a problem with not using that word.

It wasnt an issue untill someone else made it one.

The fact that you continue to use it — even dragging it into other discussions — indicates that you do in fact intend disrespect.

I will say now that when I use theterm homo it is in a non derogatory term...I am even trying to make that mu sig so i have a constant disclaimer, but I doubt anyone would accept that, imnstead they will insist that I stop saying homo even though I say homo with no malice.

FEI:

The term gay here is the derogatory term...go figure.

 

[trunks2k]

So here I said "Homo" on this thread.

How can you tell if it is said in malice?

Not in this particular thread as you have been discussing the usage of the word.

I come from a different culture, it isnt an insult...we do have insults for homosexuals (we have insults for pretty much everyone, just like everybody else) and homo is not one of them.

Well, in my culture it often is used in with malicious intent by people. If somebody says "homos are trying to teach children to respect them" , or say "You are a homo," you can bet 99% of the time they don't mean "homo" in a nice or neutral way. It is said with contempt. So you'll have to excuse people from my country that are a little sensative about people using that word.

It's more about respect. For a large number of posters on this board, using the word "homo" is taken as showing a complete lack of respect. Even if it's not your intent, that's how it will be interpreted. So you can either continue to use a word you know people are going to mis-characterize your usage of. Or you can use a more neutral word.

 

[JesusWalks78]

Not in this particular thread as you have been discussing the usage of the word.

So prove I said it with malice in any other thread.

Well, in my culture it often is used in with malicious intent by people. If somebody says "homos are trying to teach children to respect them" , or say "You are a homo," you can bet 99% of the time they don't mean "homo" in a nice or neutral way. It is said with contempt.

well put me down with the other 1% because now or ever will I say it with malice.

 

[trunks2k]

So prove I said it with malice in any other thread.

well put me down with the other 1% because now or ever will I say it with malice.

I'm not saying you did. I'm talking about how it appears. No matter what your personal intent of the usage of the word, people will interpret it as disrespectful or insulting. This interpretation is further shored up by your conservative stance.

You now know that the word "homo" has a very clear negative connotation in American and other western cultures. And even if you think people should grow thicker skins, you are at the very least confusing the conversation and putting yourself in an even worse light in the eyes of your opponents (and possibly some allies). So why continue to use it?

 

[corvus_corax]

I have been known to drop the "F-Bomb" from time to time. Usually, there is no malice involved, it's usually only used as an intensifier. I personally do not find the word offensive.

However, I would never use that word around my mother-in-law, even if I were just using it as an intensifier in a sentence.
Why?
Because she finds it offensive, even when no malice is intended during the use of the word. In the end, I am simply polite enough to refrain from using it around people who find it offensive (even when used non-maliciously).

I suppose I could just tell my mother-in-law to "grow a thicker (insert stated intesifier here) skin", but that would simply be impolite of me.

Of course, common courtesy isn't everyone's cup of tea.

 

[JesusWalks78]

I'm not saying you did.

Thats good because I dont use it with malice.

I'm talking about how it appears. No matter what your personal intent of the usage of the word, people will interpret it as disrespectful or insulting. This interpretation is further shored up by your conservative stance.

So a less conservative person can use the term Homo?

You now know that the word "homo" has a very clear negative connotation in American and other western cultures.

\

Indeed and if I am ever in America I will bear that in mind.

And even if you think people should grow thicker skins, you are at the very least confusing the conversation and putting yourself in an even worse light in the eyes of your opponents (and possibly some allies). So why continue to use it?

I am anti gay marriage and anti abortion...thats bad enough light.

I am not against homos getting together, living together having sex or whatever...marriage is sacred, I find the thought of homos getting married offensive....should they stop wanting to get married?

The answer is no, everyone should fight for what they believe is right, they have my respect for that.

 

[JesusWalks78]

I have been known to drop the "F-Bomb" from time to time. Usually, there is no malice involved, it's usually only used as an intensifier. I personally do not find the word offensive.

However, I would never use that word around my mother-in-law, even if I were just using it as an intensifier in a sentence.
Why?
Because she finds it offensive, even when no malice is intended during the use of the word. In the end, I am simply polite enough to refrain from using it around people who find it offensive (even when used non-maliciously).

I suppose I could just tell my mother-in-law to "grow a thicker (insert stated intesifier here) skin", but that would simply be impolite of me.

Of course, common courtesy isn't everyone's cup of tea.

I dont swear in front of my family either....a swear is different from using a term that is not insulting in my area of the world.

 

[quatona]

I dont swear in front of my family either....a swear is different from using a term that is not insulting in my area of the world.

How is it different, if - as you have repeatedly argued - the only thing that counts is the intention of the speaker, and everything else has to be blamed on the audience having a too thin skin?
Is there any logic to this?

 

[quatona]

And another question: If you go by the use of words in your country, and do not really care whether it is correctly understood by the majority of posters who don´t live in your country, why don´t you post in Fijan all the way? As you say, you don´t have a problem with people misunderstanding you - so that would be the easies way of saying what you want to say and leaving the rest to the audience.

 

[JesusWalks78]

How is it different, if - as you have repeatedly argued - the only thing that counts is the intention of the speaker, and everything else has to be blamed on the audience having a too thin skin?
Is there any logic to this?

Because a swear word is one that is taken as insult by all parties and meant as an insult by the speaker.

 

[Moonlight Lady]

Thats the point I said it without malice or insult, how it is received is a character flaw of the other person.

Also please show how i do not love anyone? Either show it or retract the statement.

If you have indeed said something without malice or insult, yet you still unwittingly offend the other person, and in finding this out your immediate response is that you could care less how that person felt, that they should just "get over it".... well, that is in fact showing absolutely no love for your brother.... no love, no compassion, no charity.


And the fact that you don't already know this is my point exactly. Adieu.

 

[trunks2k]

So a less conservative person can use the term Homo?

*sigh* No. Just that because of your conservative stance, people are likely to believe you are using the word in a demeaning way, even if you claim otherwise. You don't see people who are pro-gay rights using "homo" as pejorative.

Indeed and if I am ever in America I will bear that in mind.

But you are on a board posting with a significant number of Americans and people from other countries where the word "homo" has a negative connotation.

marriage is sacred, I find the thought of homos getting married offensive....should they stop wanting to get married?

This is about conversations, not political stances. Positions may or may not be offensive to someone. But that's not what we're talking about. By using the word "homo" you are needlessly putting negative connotations into what you are saying. It is not necessary to your position, and makes your position weaker, if anything, since it looks like you are making personal attacks.

So again, I ask you: If you know that people are going to find your post as a personal insult that has nothing to do with the argument you are making due to a word you use, why continue using that word? You do nothing but a demean your position.

 

[quatona]

Because a swear word is one that is taken as insult by all parties and meant as an insult by the speaker.

How the heck do you know how it´s meant by the speaker?
You kept pointing out that such cannot be known in your case, after all...