ocd...forgiveness...

[Jayangel81]

how does someone know they are beyond His grace???????

Grace is found through Jesus, and is given abundantly.


People who do not reject the Son of man will find Grace and Mercy.

The devil has a habit very common to decieve people in believing they have gone beyond Grace. It is a very common lie on this very forum Caty.

 

[keryakos]

Grace is found through Jesus, and is given abundantly.


People who do not reject the Son of man will find Grace and Mercy.

The devil has a habit very common to decieve people in believing they have gone beyond Grace. It is a very common lie on this very forum Caty.

I hope you are right ....

 

[Jayangel81]

I hope you are right ....

The problem is Grace is something some people (usually those who get stuck in legalism, like me ) view as something they try to earn or work towards. Or even fail to understand the real meaning to Grace.

We need to understand that God knows every move we make before we make them, every thought we think before we think them.

Yet..He chose to give us Grace through His Son.

Grace is something we never deserved, nothing we ever did in our lives can ever earn us Grace. It is given to us out of His love through Jesus.

However...someone can deny Grace. So how can you deny Grace?

Two ways:

1. Trying to earn it.

2. not accepting it.

an example of the latter.

My ex-girlfriend who after a long period of time, we became best friends but the way I was treated, it was not the greatest..

She would always disappear and come back, times where she was just downright nasty to me.

I always smothered her with Grace. Always said good things about herself, they way she looked, I let her move in with me when she had nowhere to go.

Whever I was really nice to her she would deny my Grace I had towards her. She knew she wasnt very nice to me, but she wouldnt accept it 100%.

Because I loved her though the more she did wrong, the more I showed her Grace. Why did Grace abide more? Because sin was there!

Romans 5:20 "...But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:"

Conclusion stands that she has a choice, to accept it or deny it.

Grace is through Jesus, and what was finished at the cross. A person can deny it or accept it

He is not going to force it, but like me with my friend, it is something we desire to give abundantly reguardless of what that person has done in the past.

***Poofs into thin air***

 

[Caty]

but to me saying that Jesus meant to deny the Spirit is watering down what he meant, i just dont see how someone can say that speaking bad things about God is forgiveable and still call it blasphemey but if you speak bad thigns about the Spirit, its still blasphemey, and Jesus said that it wasnt forgiveable so how can people say that it is forgiveable. im really not trying to be so argumentive, but i jsut see no hope in me and i dont see how i could ever go to heaven. i dont know how their could ever be hope for me...kerykos you hae no reason to worry what you said wasnt intentional...i think that i may have done something intentional w/my thoughts or when i post my thoughts soemtimes.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

but to me saying that Jesus meant to deny the Spirit is watering down what he meant, i just don't see how someone can say that speaking bad things about God is forgiveable and still call it blasphemey but if you speak bad thigns about the Spirit, its still blasphemey, and Jesus said that it wasnt forgiveable so how can people say that it is forgiveable. im really not trying to be so argumentive, but i jsut see no hope in me and i dont see how i could ever go to heaven. i dont know how their could ever be hope for me...kerykos you hae no reason to worry what you said wasnt intentional...i think that i may have done something intentional w/my thoughts or when i post my thoughts soemtimes.

It is something someone says about the Holy Spirit (i.e. the power of God the Father and God the Son), but it is something said from the heart, it is a condition of the heart in its view to the work of Jesus. You must look at the circumstances surrounding this incident when Jesus spoke those condemning words, He was speaking to the Pharisees who believed in their hearts that the miracles Jesus was doing was from the devil. they didn't just have a thought about it, they truly believed in their heart that Jesus was of the devil and that His miracles and His mission on earth was of the devil. Like I said earlier they were unable to discern (spiritually) light (Holy Spirit) and darkness (devil) therefore they were committing the unpardonable sin of blasphemy from the heart against the Holy Spirit. They had set their hearts and minds against the workings of Jesus and so they are condemned.

You must come to the realization that you are no where near this state of mind and heart, you are actually the complete opposite of this. Something I'm sure you have heard before but is very true, if you think you may have committed this sin you haven't. These people that have committed this sin are without hope and are condemned because they have not believed in the only begotten Son of God. That is I believe the point Jesus was making.

You may not be Pentacostal but I think this site may help you; it is their definition on this sin. Sin: Unpardonable Sin

God bless!

 

[Jesuslovesme29]

It is something someone says about the Holy Spirit (i.e. the power of God the Father and God the Son), but it is something said from the heart, it is a condition of the heart in its view to the work of Jesus. You must look at the circumstances surrounding this incident when Jesus spoke those condemning words, He was speaking to the Pharisees who believed in their hearts that the miracles Jesus was doing was from the devil. they didn't just have a thought about it, they truly believed in their heart that Jesus was of the devil and that His miracles and His mission on earth was of the devil. Like I said earlier they were unable to discern (spiritually) light (Holy Spirit) and darkness (devil) therefore they were committing the unpardonable sin of blasphemy from the heart against the Holy Spirit. They had set their hearts and minds against the workings of Jesus and so they are condemned.

You must come to the realization that you are no where near this state of mind and heart, you are actually the complete opposite of this. Something I'm sure you have heard before but is very true, if you think you may have committed this sin you haven't. These people that have committed this sin are without hope and are condemned because they have not believed in the only begotten Son of God. That is I believe the point Jesus was making.

Exactly.

 

[Caty]

but if they believed that then they would have acted in ignorance and they could have been forgiven, see i believe that they knew it was God. Because i believe that blasphemey isnt blasphemey unless their is intent to harm. i promise im not trying to argue i jsut want to get my fears out here so maybe i have some hope.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

but if they believed that then they would have acted in ignorance and they could have been forgiven

Yes perhaps they could have been forgiven, Paul thought like that and probably said similar things that the Pharisees said and He was saved and was used more than any man. We do not know the mind of God, His thoughts are above our thought, and His ways above our ways. Things that seem impossible to us are possible with God. Jesus can and will forgive anyone who comes to Him in repentance and faith believing on Him for salvation. He said He would do this and He cannot and will not lie.

, see i believe that they knew it was God. Because i believe that blasphemey isnt blasphemey unless their is intent to harm.

They might have known He was of God, they knew the prophecies concerning Him and the salvation that He brought with Him, but they were so blinded by the devil (who Jesus said was their father) and they loved their legalistic, self righteous way of life that they thought they needed no Saviour, they thought that they could save themselves from their own sins, also they refused to believe in Him because they thought that their Messiah would deliver them from the Romans, they were confusing his first coming with His second coming in prophecy (different and similar topic but it is interesting how the Jews rejected their Saviour). I do not however think that they thought He was God, their eyes were so blinded and their hearts so hardened that they could not even tell the difference between God's work and satanic activity, they could not discern light and even if they could they rejected the light that they had seen and would probably never repent from it, because once you have rejected the light that you have been shown by God you will not receive more until you accept and believe in the light that has been shown to you. So only by the grace and mercy of God could these people ever come to the cross, but really it is only by the grace of God that any of us come to the cross, it is all the Holy Spirits working in our life, for we would not so much as even think of Jesus' salvation if the Holy Spirit had not showed us some light and on our part received it.

i promise im not trying to argue i jsut want to get my fears out here so maybe i have some hope.

You have more hope than you could possibly imagine, eye has not seen or ear has heard what the Lord has planned for His people. I believe the point Jesus was trying to make Caty is that He is the only way to salvation and if you do not believe in His power and the finished work (all accomplished through the Holy Spirit) He has accomplished on our part than you will be condemned, you cannot be saved until you believe that He is He, that He is the Life, the Truth, the Way, that He is salvation. The only way to render oneself unforgivable is to trick oneself into thinking that Jesus will not forgive you. But that is a lie from the devil, Jesus will forgive all who come to Him and you must believe this, Jesus will not and cannot lie, He says He will save all who come to Him and I believe Him and you must also Caty.

Jesus' love be with you.

 

[Caty]

thank you, that post helped me a lot.

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

thank you, that post helped me a lot.

You are very welcome, God bless you!

 

[Caty]

see now im back to believeing that ive commited the unforgivable sin, because i know wht this sin is and i know the consequences but i still have these thoughts and if they are fomr me then that is the unforgivable sin, right?????

 

[SoldierOfSoul]

see now im back to believeing that ive commited the unforgivable sin, because i know wht this sin is and i know the consequences but i still have these thoughts and if they are fomr me then that is the unforgivable sin, right?????

Caty, you are fine, this is just your OCD firing back up again, you need to learn to stop believing everything your feelings tell you and just trust and rest in God's Word.

“Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason has once accepted in spite of your changing moods” C.S Lewis

Now if God's word says that your OK and your reason also agrees (even it doesn't now but maybe it did last night or a week ago, etc.) then you need to learn to believe God (most importantly) but also yourself, what I mean is (and this may be a bad example) say at one time your reason said that you love softball, well what if later down the road in your life your reason tries to tell you that you don't like softball anymore, well you can either side with one or the other but most likely since you once enjoyed it you will side with that side of your reason.

Now if your reason has accepted that you are forgiven at one time, then you must hang on to that because even if you read something or hear something condemning and then think your in the same boat again you can always remember that your reason once accepted that Jesus is merciful, forgiving, long suffering and that He will never cast you out, and that you can rest on those promises that your reason has once accepted as true. Your conscience controled by your OCD will continually try to condemn you, but if you start telling your OCD what the truth is and not the other way around then you will start to win in the battle against this disorder.

Your moods will change more than just about anyone since you have OCD so you just need to trust in what Christ has accomplished in your life and move on to maturity in your faith. If you keep going back to this problem you will never be able to enjoy the benefits of His promises. God loves you, and Jesus died for you, and your moods and feelings or mine can never change the facts of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.

When you receive His love and believe that He is on your side and not against you, then you will start improving. He is on your side Caty, He wants you to love Him as much as He does you (although that is impossible because His divine love is more than our minds can comprehend), when you receive His love that is taking Him at His word, that is truly receiving what He has done for you. Receive His love, rest in it, let Him guide your walk with Him and not your OCD.

Jesus loves you Caty.

 

[annrobert]

see now im back to believeing that ive commited the unforgivable sin, because i know wht this sin is and i know the consequences but i still have these thoughts and if they are fomr me then that is the unforgivable sin, right?????

The pharisees wanted nothing to do with Jesus love or forgiveness or mercy.They thought they were all self righteous.They hated the idea of needing Jesus forgiveness,And when Jesus light and love and holiness brought their evil to light ,well they hated that.

People who commit the unpardonable sin are not scared of offending Jesus,they are not hoping that Jesus loves and forgives them and will accept them.They are not posting on christian forums asking for reassurance that Jesus loves them.They do not have OCD.

I think they hate God totally and do not ever want to stop hating Him.
They are so full of pride and do not think they need forgiveness.They are self righteous like the pharisees.This is what I think.They want independence from God,they do want want to depend on Jesus as their Saviour.

This is so different from all of us here.All of us want to be loved and forgiven and accepted by Jesus .All of us here want to serve Jesus and make Him happy.All of us here desire with all our hearts to be accepted and loved by Jesus.And we are accepted and loved and forgiven by Jesus because Jesus will not cast us out.Now that is a reason to bow down and worship Jesus with all our hearts.Amen