Obviously, no one is changing their minds about this.

[TheFathersDaughter]

You know you're arguing and not debating when no one is changing their minds.

I've been in here for a few months now. I've seen people leave and come back. I've seen some nasty things said and I've seen some apologies there after. I've seen pretty much everything you can see in an internet forum. Except one thing: change of mind. People (particularly me) may have changed wording, may have found new sources, may have decided on how to present their argument, but their mind is in one place.

This side of the fence | or this side of the fence.

This is seriously becoming pointless. Some of you may not think so, but if you're spending so much time here, debating with FELLOW Christians about an issue that they have their mind SET on already, you obviously aren't out doing what you should be.

I'm guilty of this too, which is why I'm changing my pace to try to ease arguments into discussions.

I'm calling this a DISCUSSION of homosexuality. Not an argument of whether or not it's right. A discussion, particularly it's affect on families. Instead of using scientific studies, use journals of children with two moms. Instead of using verses saying homosexuality is this or that, use testimonies about the effects homosexuality (or even heterosexuality) have had on you.

Honestly, I don't want too much "Your wrong" in this thread. This is a cool down thread.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I honestly don't see the point of this thread since ethics can only be based on moral absolutes which can only be demonstrated with scripture. What moms say or don't say doesn't matter since they don't know the spirtual harm they can be causing or not causing. Just because we cannot see something is wrong that doesn't imply it is.

BTW people don't change their minds because they refuse to let go of their pressupositions. It's quiet obvious that they manipulate the evidence so it fits their world view.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

I honestly don't see the point of this thread since ethics can only be based on moral absolutes which can only be demonstrated with scripture. What moms say or don't say doesn't matter since they don't know the spirtual harm they can be causing or not causing. Just because we cannot see something is wrong that doesn't imply it is.

BTW people don't change their minds because they refuse to let go of their pressupositions. It's quiet obvious that they manipulate the evidence so it fits their world view.

Like I said, this isn't to discuss right or wrong.

It's too discuss effect.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Like I said, this isn't to discuss right or wrong.

It's too discuss effect.

like I said, the effects will only be byproducts of our empiricism.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

like I said, the effects will only be byproducts of our empiricism.

Without observation, experiment can not exist. The Bible would not exist. Without observation the world is perpetual nothingness. Observation is VITAL.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Without observation, experiment can not exist. The Bible would not exist. Without observation the world is perpetual nothingness. Observation is VITAL.

Experimentation wasn't a part of the development fo scripture. The scripture was written by men, but guided through an infalliable spirit. And you are right although empiricism is important, it cannot determine questions of ethics and is useless compared to God's word or logic. I leave it where it belongs, at the lab trying to understand the natural world.

 

[davedjy]

t's quiet obvious that they manipulate the evidence so it fits their world view.

Manipulate? 1 Cor 6:9 is a manipulation, and poor translation of the Greek word "arsenokoitai". Some translations of the Bible have even falsely translated out "malakoi" to mean "homosexual".

"To support world views" is not a debate point...over 450 vertebrate species are born gay, lesbian, bi and transgender. "To support fundamental & false doctrine, and attempt to make people convert from their true sexuality", is more like it.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Manipulate? 1 Cor 6:9 is a manipulation, and poor translation of the Greek word "arsenokoitai". Some translations of the Bible have even falsely translated out "malakoi" to mean "homosexual".

"To support world views" is not a debate point...over 450 vertebrate species are born gay, lesbian, bi and transgender. "To support fundamental & false doctrine, and attempt to make people convert from their true sexuality", is more like it.

Again, more of your gay world view applied to scripture. There is no way you can prove that all of those species are gay. And even if for some reason they were gay, that doesn't imply that it's man design as well. Go take a logic course, insted of telling people how dumb they are with you because they don't agree with your gay agenda. I guess if black widows eat their mates we should do it as well.

 

[Brieuse]

Again, more of your gay world view applied to scripture. There is no way you can prove that all of those species are gay. And even if for some reason they were gay, that doesn't imply that it's man design as well. Go take a logic course, insted of telling people how dumb they are with you because they don't agree with your gay agenda. I guess if black widows eat their mates we should do it as well.

prove prove prove he says.

lol.

 

[davedjy]

Again, more of your gay world view applied to scripture. There is no way you can prove that all of those species are gay. And even if for some reason they were gay, that doesn't imply that it's man design as well. Go take a logic course, insted of telling people how dumb they are with you because they don't agree with your gay agenda. I guess if black widows eat their mates we should do it as well.

More commentary, and I never said that EVERY single one of those species is gay, just certain selections from each one, just like not every human is gay.

http://seedmagazine.com/news/2006/06/the_gay_animal_kingdom.php?page=all&p=y

By the way, your "eating another" is thou shall not murder, which is in the 10 Commandments, there isn't any Commandment from the 10 that says "thou shall not be gay".

Very good Brieuse, PROOF is what I asked for, not more "you being gay is a worldly example" F- debate points.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

I don't want to sound like a nag but this is turning into an argument.

 

[DMagoh]

I don't want to sound like a nag but this is turning into an argument.

What did you expect?

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

What did you expect?

A discussion. A peaceful little testimonial about homosexualities affect personally or otherwise.

Because I've seen where arguments in this forum go.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Again, more of your gay world view applied to scripture. There is no way you can prove that all of those species are gay. And even if for some reason they were gay, that doesn't imply that it's man design as well. Go take a logic course, insted of telling people how dumb they are with you because they don't agree with your gay agenda. I guess if black widows eat their mates we should do it as well.

A more important fact could be that Jesus didn't die for them, because they don't have the knowledge of right and wrong like we do.

Just a thought.

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Manipulate? 1 Cor 6:9 is a manipulation, and poor translation of the Greek word "arsenokoitai". Some translations of the Bible have even falsely translated out "malakoi" to mean "homosexual"[/SIZE]. . .

PROVE IT! From any credible original writing, then prove it is a false translation from any standard Greek resource NOT homosexuals-я-us.com®.

...[SIZE=-1]over 450 vertebrate species are born gay, lesbian, bi and transgender[/SIZE]. . .

If that is true then all the ancients would have been completely familiar with every aspect of homosexuality. I doubt that scholars 1000, or more, years ago watched some same sex animals mating and said, "Well we see 2 males (or 2 females) having sex but we can't describe it because we don't understand it and we will have to wait 1000 years for someone to invent a word to describe what we see."

Can you tell us where did those "transgender" species go for counseling, hormone treatments, and transgender surgery?