OBOB Statement of Faith / "What we Believe and Teach" etc

[Tonks]

Hello OBOB,

As you may have heard we're revamping the general "statements of faith" in all of the Congregational forums (as we've removed Forum Specific Guidelines...there aren't to be "rules" per se but a general exposition of the faith). Sort of...if one walked into a Catholic church and asked the priest "what do you believe" (assuming you had no knowledge of Catholicism) what would be said (ie: not lots of arguments about VII etc). We're driving for a standardized format across the Congregational forums...a few brief statements then outside links to resources (the Vatican, the CCC etc for example). I'm going to post some examples of what other areas are doing, the old OBOB FSGs...and then some proposed "Statements of Faith" that came our general direction from Catholics.

There is about a week to kick things around.

 

[Tonks]

Examples:

Messianic Judaism

The Messianic Community- a forum for all Messianics to discuss and fellowship.

A few things to know about Messianic Believers:

1. Messianic Believers are Jews and Gentiles who have embraced Yeshua as the Messiah of Israel (Redeemer of the World).
2. Messianic Believers incorporate, affirm, and preserve the Jewish identity, Jewish customs, and Jewish style of worship, as they seek to be a light to the Jew first, then to the Nations.
3. Main Stream Messianic Judaism affirms the Trinitarian nature of God.

To learn more about what Messianics believe please see the MJAA and the UMJC.


House Rules-
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against this denomination's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of Messianic Judaism will be considered off topic.

Lutheran

Theologia Crucis – Lutheran Forum - a forum for all Lutherans to discuss and fellowship. .

A few things to know about Lutherans:

1.We believe in the five solas as they were originally formulated:

a. sola Scriptura, scripture alone, the books of the New and Old Testament in the Bible are the sole rule and norm of faith.

b. sola Gracia, grace alone, we are saved totally by the grace of God and man cannot contribute or cooperate in his justification.

c. sola Fida, faith alone, we are saved through faith, and not by works.

d. solus Christus, Christ alone, we are saved totally for the glory and by the works of Christ.

e. soli Deo Gloria, glory to God alone. The purpose of everything is and totally shall be the glory of God.

​

2.. We believe that baptism is a means of grace througt which God creates and strengthens "saving faith" as the "washing of regeneration" in which infants and adults are reborn.

3.We believe in Real Presence - that the consecrated elements of bread and wine in Holy Communion are the true body and blood of Christ "in, with, and under the form" of bread and wine for all those who eat and drink it.

4. Good works are the fruit of a saving faith. All good works have their source in God.
​

To learn more about what we believe please see What is a Lutheran and the Augsburg Confession.


This forum has two subforums-

LCMS/WELS/ELS/LCC Subforum for the more conservative Lutheran branches. Tthe more conservative Lutheran branches generally use a grammatical-historical hermeneutic or style of interpretation. In addition most are confessional. A confessional Lutheran is one who holds a quia subscription to the entire Book of Concord. A quia subscription holds that the Book of Concord is entirely biblical.


ELCA/ELCIC Subforum for the more liberal Lutheran branches.
The more liberal Lutheran branches generally use a historical critical hermeneutic. In addition they are generally not confessional, but tend to hold to a quantenus subscription to the Book of Concord. A quantenus subscription would be holding to the Book of Concord as far as it is in agreement with scripture.



House Rules-
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here ( Community Rules ). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against this denomination's theology. You may post in fellowship.

Methodist

Wesley’s Parish – Methodist/Nazarene - a forum for all Methodists/Nazarenes/Wesleyans to discuss and fellowship.

A few things to know about Wesley’s Parish:

1. We follow the Wesleyan Quadrilaterial in forming our theology. We recognize scripture as authoritative and our primary source, however we also consider tradition, reason, and experience.
2. We believe a person has the freewill to respond to God's grace.
3. Faith is all that is required for salvation, however faith results in good works (fruit).
4. We believe that Christian Perfection/Entire Sanctification is a process based on God's prevenient, justifying, and sanctifying grace.
5. Our Sacraments include baptism and communion. All of our churches perform "believer's" baptisms, some also Baptize infants as a means of grace.

To learn more about what this group believes please see The United Methodist Church, The Church of the Nazarene and Churches of Christ in Christian Union.

House Rules-
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against this denomination's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to this group’s beliefs will be considered off topic.

 

[Tonks]

Old OBOB FSG

Forum Specific Guidelines-One Bread, One Body- Catholic Forum

These guidelines do not replace the site-wide rules, but rather clarify the rule "Congregational Forums wishing to remain safe havens may choose to limit debate to members of their own denomination, insist that all posts conform to their creed etc."



Please post in conformance with all of the following:

• 
  [*]The site-wide rules
  [*]The congregation-wide guidelines
  [*]These forum-specific guidelines (FSGs)

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Forum-specific Guidelines for the One Bread, One Body (Catholic) Forum

The Congregation-Wide Guidelines apply to this forum. They outline the basic membership and debate guidelines for this forum. Additional guidelines are explained below.

NOTE: Many issues discussed in this forum can be pastoral in nature. If you have any struggles in the faith or deep theological questions, you are strongly encouraged to talk to your priest. You may try to get a better understanding in OBOB, but no one here has the authority of nor can they take the place of your priest.

Statement of Faith



The Catholic Church is comprised of all Christians and churches who are united in full communion with His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI.

• 
  [*]This forum is open to those who accept the teachings of the Church (as defined in the above statement of faith) for discussion and fellowship. Catholics may have difficulty understanding, but they assent to those teachings as a lamb would assent to the gentle prodding of the shepherds crook.
  [*]It is hoped that through dialog, those who agree and those who struggle can learn from each other and grow to better understand the truths of our beautiful faith.

• 
  [*]Those who disagree with the statement of faith are welcomed for fellowship and honest questions, but not for any kind of debate. If you have a question about what is or is not fellowship, please see The congregation-wide guidelines

Additional guidelines on discussions:

• 
  [*]Catholics may discuss and dialog with each other on their faith, but any promotion of views contrary to the teachings of the Church is prohibited. Reasoned and respectful discussion of the truths of our faith in an effort to understand them and make them part of your life is allowed. But direct opposition is not. If there are any questions as to what the Church believes please look here: link.
  [*]Discussing why we believe something, explaining why you have a problem with something or any other process that seeks to move toward understanding and assent is not prohibited. To struggle is different from obstinate denial.
  
  • For useful reference please see the links below:
    • Doctrine
    • Dogma
    • Dogmatic Fact
    • Assent
    • Dissent (can not be promoted or encouraged)
    • Modernism (can not be promoted or encouraged)
  
  [*]There is to be no liturgical prejudice. Whether a person attends the Ordinary or Extraordinary use of the Latin Mass, or an Eastern Rite Divine Liturgy, their liturgy must be acknowledged as fully Catholic and of equal dignity with all other Catholic rites. However, liturgical preferences may be expressed, but only in a charitable manner.
  [*]Do not use the privilege of the safe haven to throw stones outward at others and/or their faith. Discussion of how we theologically disagree with our brothers and sisters in an effort to understand our Catholic Faith and Christianity as a whole is fine, but anything that is a flame or an attack is not. We should not tell Baptists, Methodist, Anglicans...etc, what their Church teaches. We should show the same courtesy that we would want to receive ourselves from our non-Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.

• 
  [*]If you find a thread in another area of Christian Forums that you believe flames Catholics or attacks our faith in a way that violates Christian Forums rules then report it. Do not come into OBOB and post links to the thread in a manner that escalates a flame war.
  [*]The main OBOB forum is designated for discussion that pertains to the entire church. If you wish to discuss or participate in in depth discussions of or fellowship with members of the Charismatic Catholic Renewal, please visit that forum.

Note In Depth Rule on Issues of Abortion and Social Justice

No member of, or visitor to, OBOB will support what John Paul II defined as the proportionalist error. The proportionalist error quoted below:

It is often claimed that the life of an unborn child or a seriously disabled person is only a relative good: according to a proportionalist approach, or one of sheer calculation, this good should be compared with and balanced against other goods.

It is even maintained that only someone present and personally involved in a concrete situation can correctly judge the goods at stake: consequently, only that person would be able to decide on the morality of his choice. The State therefore, in the interest of civil coexistence and social harmony, should respect this choice, even to the point of permitting abortion and euthanasia.
​

Please read the below quote by John Paul II for further clarifying on the stand of the Catholic Church against abortion:

Evangelium vitae
John Paul II
​

The Second Vatican Council, in a passage which retains all its relevance today, forcefully condemned a number of crimes and attacks against human life. Thirty years later, taking up the words of the Council and with the same forcefulness I repeat that condemnation in the name of the whole Church, certain that I am interpreting the genuine sentiment of every upright conscience: "Whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of murder, genocide, abortion, euthanasia, or wilful self-destruction, whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as mutilation, torments inflicted on body or mind, attempts to coerce the will itself; whatever insults human dignity, such as subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery, prostitution, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where people are treated as mere instruments of gain rather than as free and responsible persons; all these things and others like them are infamies indeed. They poison human society, and they do more harm to those who practise them than to those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are a supreme dishonour to the Creator".5
http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0141/__P3.HTM
​

This Means, as affirmed by our Bishops, that: We can not do so by advocating any method that allows or supports abortion as a function of choice or defines it as a right.

We can not do so if, by the argument, we promote and/or defend abortion and the doctors,nurses, clinics or hospitals that perform abortion.

We can not promote or advocate personal attacks or physical harm on the doctors or nurses who perform abortions or other pro-death cultural procedures.

We can argue from the standpoint that opposition to abortion is essential in our social teaching because it strikes right to the heart of our foundational concept of dignity from being made in the Image of God. And that concept extends, without compromise of the life of the unborn, as the Church teaches: "From Conception to Natural Death."

Private Revelations - While there are many private revelations, both approved and unapproved, they are still open to private veneration and meditation. However, promotion of unapproved private revelation in the main OBOB forum will be restricted, but discussion is allowed. ​

Political threads that do not relate to doctrines/theology/social teachings of the Church will be closed and moved to American politics.​

 

[Tonks]

Some proposed options:

Once for a short Catholic Statement of Faith I had something like the promises of Baptism. After all at the end it says: This is our Faith, This is the Faith of the Church. This was what I had back then. It was not..."extensive" enough for many...so I did a new one that was the prototype of the most recent FSG's. I always liked the simplicity of...Baptismal promises. Mary. And treat the dogmas with respect while here. Don't know if it helps as you move forward or who is doing the OBOB statement of faith.

OBOB Statement of Faith

We reject Satan and all of his works and empty promises. We believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. We believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died and was buried, rose from the dead and is now seated at the right hand of the Father We believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.

The above are our Baptismal promises that we renew every year at the Easter Vigil. As we say at Baptism and at renewal. This is our Faith, this is the Faith of the Church.

We also accept as true that Mary is truly the Mother of God and require all visitors of goodwill to treat with respect all that the Catholic Church teaches as dogma concerning that issue as well as all other proclaimed dogma. You need not agree but we ask that you, in the spirit of the site wide rules, act respectfully toward those beliefs and those who hold them while in OBOB

and another option

OBOB is a forum for those Catholics who are in communion with the Holy See in Rome. This communion consists of the Western Church (Latin Rite) as well as approximately two dozen Eastern Catholic Churches, following various Eastern Rites.

OBOB welcomes non-Catholic guests who wish to fellowship or ask respectful questions. This is a non-debate forum for non-Catholic members. Catholic members may not promote dissent against the Magisterial teachings of the Church.

The beliefs of the Catholic Church are found in the three primary Creeds of the ancient and Apostolic Church: The Apostle’s Creed, The Nicene Creed, and The Athanasian Creed. A fuller explanation of Catholic teachings can be found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Tonks]

again...just some things to kick around...a new SOF will be posted...so i value input rather than just making it up myself.

 

[Memento Mori]

I don't fully understand how congregational forums work. What is the difference between a member and a guest? OBOB currently has a handful of individuals (myself included) who assent to Catholicism but are not confirmed and "in communion with the Holy See in Rome." Will there be a provision for converts or are we guests?

 

[Gwendolyn]

Maybe we could come up with a combination of the two OBOB statements of faith. I really like the first one but I do think that A) we do need to emphasise the fact that the forum is only for Catholics in communion with the Holy See and B) we need to mention the fact that the Church consists of the Latin rite and the Eastern churches.

Brain shutting down, too tired from long day at work. Bed coming soon.

 

[Ave Maria]

Maybe we could come up with a combination of the two OBOB statements of faith. I really like the first one but I do think that A) we do need to emphasise the fact that the forum is only for Catholics in communion with the Holy See and B) we need to mention the fact that the Church consists of the Latin rite and the Eastern churches.

Brain shutting down, too tired from long day at work. Bed coming soon.

I totally agree with you. We definitely need to emphasize that this forum is only for Catholics in full communion with the Holy See and we also need to mention the fact that the Church consists of Latin rite and Eastern churches.

I feel that those who are not orthodox in their beliefs should be limited to debating in the Liberal Catholics forum or some other forum and not in here. This forum is a beacon of the truth and therefore, what the Church has defined as heresy or heterodox doctrine should not be promoted in this forum. I hope this has made sense.

 

[stone]

Hello OBOB,

As you may have heard we're revamping the general "statements of faith" in all of the Congregational forums (as we've removed Forum Specific Guidelines...there aren't to be "rules" per se but a general exposition of the faith). Sort of...if one walked into a Catholic church and asked the priest "what do you believe" (assuming you had no knowledge of Catholicism) what would be said (ie: not lots of arguments about VII etc). We're driving for a standardized format across the Congregational forums...a few brief statements then outside links to resources (the Vatican, the CCC etc for example). I'm going to post some examples of what other areas are doing, the old OBOB FSGs...and then some proposed "Statements of Faith" that came our general direction from Catholics.

There is about a week to kick things around.

Nicene Creed?

 

[Michelina]

This is our statement of faith, Tonks:

Saint Charles Borromeo Catholic Church of Picayune, MS - Faith - Catechism of the Catholic Church

Nothing more or less will do.

 

[scraparcs]

Nicene Creed?

That doesn't necessarily differentiate the Church from any other denomination (since with the occasional asterisk most denoms will assent to the NC) and plus, it's a bit long.

However, some NC lines may be useful to work from. "We believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church..."

 

[stone]

I'd imagine that without the Fsg's that forum participation will have to go back to faith icon's to identify who can debate where?

It may also mean that membership sign up list may have to be used again for some sub-forums?

The Nicene Creed worked here in the past and was actually used to help identify those that claimed to be christian as well.

 

[JoabAnias]

Thanks for asking Tonks.

I feel the source and summit of our identity is the Eucharist and the teaching authority of the Magisterium.

Have you thought about an "Ask a Catholic" sub forum where teaching must come from the horses mouth?

That might cut down on cross baiting and give a place to ask questions.

As far as usurpers, meh, good luck.

 

[Tonks]

I totally agree with you. We definitely need to emphasize that this forum is only for Catholics in full communion with the Holy See and we also need to mention the fact that the Church consists of Latin rite and Eastern churches.

To the latter, yes. To the former...that rather misreads the intent. The "House Rules" block seen in the other bits will suffice. We moderate on post content not the icon, as it were.

I feel that those who are not orthodox in their beliefs should be limited to debating in the Liberal Catholics forum or some other forum and not in here. This forum is a beacon of the truth and therefore, what the Church has defined as heresy or heterodox doctrine should not be promoted in this forum. I hope this has made sense.

That, again, is not what this is about. I'm interested in a brief list of what Catholicism is. These aren't forum rules but what rather what Catholicism teaches.

This is our statement of faith, Tonks:

Saint Charles Borromeo Catholic Church of Picayune, MS - Faith - Catechism of the Catholic Church

Nothing more or less will do.

Obviously and it will be linked...however I'm merely looking for the 50,000 foot view so that someone that knows little to nothing about Catholicism can get a taste...and then follow links for further info. Again, look at the other examples.

I'd imagine that without the Fsg's that forum participation will have to go back to faith icon's to identify who can debate where?

As above...we moderate on post content. So you're incorrect on that point.

It may also mean that membership sign up list may have to be used again for some sub-forums?

We're not using membership lists. Full stop.

The Nicene Creed worked here in the past and was actually used to help identify those that claimed to be christian as well.

The Nicene Creed is already used by the site at large. It is inferred and the main site rules will be linked.

Thanks for asking Tonks.

I feel the source and summit of our identity is the Eucharist and the teaching authority of the Magisterium.

While I agree...simply need to explain the terms as there are some folks that will go "Magisterium"

Have you thought about an "Ask a Catholic" sub forum where teaching must come from the horses mouth?

That might cut down on cross baiting and give a place to ask questions.

I've long thought about an "Ask a Catholic" sub-forum...for various reasons it never got off the ground. I'm not opposed to looking at it again. I think that the TAW one is a good example.

 

[Tigg]

I just hope, that after all is said and done, that (not only the maybe one or two who are or claim to be perfect Catholics), but the rest of we who struggle with this or that can still post.

Frankly, I find that those who come here make this forum interesting. I myself, do not find a bunch of trolls or those who do not have good intentions, here on OBOB. At any rate I will pay attention to whats up here. By the way, the Nicene is a solid pit stop for anyone claiming Christianity. But even those who have trouble with something it states, shouldn't be auto banned from the forum. However I do see the troubles that management has with the forums etc. I will watch to see if I, a non perfect Catholic, can still come here and post. ...God bless

 

[JimR-OCDS]

This statement drew a red flag for me.


Catholics may discuss and dialog with each other on their faith, but any promotion of views contrary to the teachings of the Church is prohibited.


I can tell you, there are some subjects which many Catholics, especially in Catholic web forums such as this, wrongly believe are contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I won't bring up one of the subjects in question, because it would trash the thread.

I think it should state, subjects that are defined by the Church, to be contrary to Church teaching, is prohibited.

A subject that some priest wrote and article against, is not necessarily contrary to Catholic Teaching and should be allowed.



Jim

 

[Gwendolyn]

Catholics may discuss and dialog with each other on their faith, but any promotion of views contrary to the teachings of the Church is prohibited.

**Dialogue

 

[Gwendolyn]

To the latter, yes. To the former...that rather misreads the intent. The "House Rules" block seen in the other bits will suffice. We moderate on post content not the icon, as it were.

Then I like the first option that you presented. It sounds lovely. Add the Eastern Catholic churches and I will be happy.

 

[Tonks]

This statement drew a red flag for me.


Catholics may discuss and dialog with each other on their faith, but any promotion of views contrary to the teachings of the Church is prohibited.


I can tell you, there are some subjects which many Catholics, especially in Catholic web forums such as this, wrongly believe are contrary to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

I won't bring up one of the subjects in question, because it would trash the thread.

I think it should state, subjects that are defined by the Church, to be contrary to Church teaching, is prohibited.

A subject that some priest wrote and article against, is not necessarily contrary to Catholic Teaching and should be allowed.



Jim

These were my remarks about a month ago in the Admin forum when all of these things were being discussed. There was a fairly long thread in OBOB a bit ago where I mentioned something similar...

The issue that I'm struggling with is highlighted above (and below from the proposed OBOB ones):

Catholic members may not promote dissent against the Magisterial teachings of the Church.
​

I think that it is the phrase "promote dissent" that I'm having trouble with. I like "active promotion of views contrary" better, I think. "Dissent" is too subjective, I think.

I also think such language is probably more proper for a rewritten Congregational rule rather than in individual statements of faith...that way it covers everybody all at once.

Something like: active promotion of views contrary to a Congregation's listed statement of faith are considered off topic.

There is a difference, I think, between promotion, discussion, and dissent. I'm just trying to figure out where the balance is and I think that discussion should be allowed...but not promotion...and I simply don't like the word dissent.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

This is our statement of faith, Tonks:

Saint Charles Borromeo Catholic Church of Picayune, MS - Faith - Catechism of the Catholic Church

Nothing more or less will do.

Michelina!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big, Big Hugs
It is so good to see your name here in OBOB!
I pray that you are doing better and will be able to visit us here more often.