Objective evidence of God

[CabVet]

Predictions have been made but most of those predictions are after the fact. WE see certain patterns in the way life arose which allows us to make those predictions.

Predictions have been made in 1859. DNA was discovered almost 100 years later, and all of the DNA evidence gathered so far supports evolution.

It is not incompatible with the Genesis narrative. The timeline of the narrative is an unknown variable. The fossil record is only what it is. WE have fossil evidence that supports a certain age but is never definite.

The order in which organisms appear in the fossil record is not compatible with the order in which they were created in Genesis. But this is getting off-topic, why don't you start another thread explaining how exactly you think the fossil record supports the Genesis narrative? I would like you to start by showing how plants are capable of surviving without the sun, and why they are absent from the fossil record until much after the animals but Genesis says they were created first.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Predictions have been made in 1859. DNA was discovered almost 100 years later, and all of the DNA evidence gathered so far supports evolution.

I didn't say the evidence doesn't support evolution. What predictions were made in 1859?

The order in which organisms appear in the fossil record is not compatible with the order in which they were created in Genesis.

They do not line up with the current fossil evidence in two ways. One when plants come in and birds. Current fossil evidence is what it is. It changes with new discoveries.

 

[CabVet]

I didn't say the evidence doesn't support evolution. What predictions were made in 1859?

That every generation was slightly different, and that those differences were hereditary (mutations). That closely related organisms would have a similar genetic make-up (regardless of their external appearance). That the pattern of relationships between living organisms would reflect common ancestry and fit into a nested hierarchy. For starters.

They do not line up with the current fossil evidence in two ways. One when plants come in and birds. Current fossil evidence is what it is. It changes with new discoveries.

Genesis:

1. Plants (Gen 1:12) before the sun (Gen 1:16).
2. Birds (Gen 1:20) before insects (Gen 1:24).
3. Whales at the same time as fish (Gen 1:21).
4. Whales (Gen 1:21) before land mammals (Gen 1:24).

Not to mention that the order is completely different in Genesis 2.

 

[Oncedeceived]

That every generation was slightly different, and that those differences were hereditary (mutations). That closely related organisms would have a similar genetic make-up (regardless of their external appearance). That the pattern of relationships between living organisms would reflect common ancestry and fit into a nested hierarchy. For starters.

The nested hierarchy system was developed prior to common ancestry.



Genesis:

1. Plants (Gen 1:12) before the sun (Gen 1:16).
2. Birds (Gen 1:20) before insects (Gen 1:24).
3. Whales at the same time as fish (Gen 1:21).
4. Whales (Gen 1:21) before land mammals (Gen 1:24).

Not to mention that the order is completely different in Genesis 2.

Whales are not mentioned in the original language it is a poor translation. Birds I mentioned myself.

Genesis 2 is the spiritual creation account.

 

[CabVet]

Whales are not mentioned in the original language it is a poor translation. Birds I mentioned myself.

Oh, I forgot plants (Gen 1:12) before animals (Gen 1:20-24). Also, I thought the KJV was the original Bible, and 1600s English was spoken in heaven.

Genesis 2 is the spiritual creation account.

That does not explain why it is different. Anyhow, objective evidence of God? I am anxiously awaiting that, since when you provide it I will need no faith to believe that God exists.

 

[bhsmte]

Metzger had the same information available to him and his credentials were excellent as well and he did not come to the same conclusions that Erhman came to. There are many scholars that do not agree and they too have learned the other languages to make sure they were translating accurately.

Sure, Metzger was well respected and he had his own opinion, which did not reflect the same skepticism that Ehrman has.

One thing to keep in mind regarding biblical scholars and historians, the vast majority of them go into the field because they are indeed, devout christians and have a pre-conceived notion that christianity is true. Biblical critique, has always had an aura of; "be careful of debunking the christian story", because you will tick off so many people, which Ehrman indeed has, but he has tremendous substance if you listen to him and absorb his reasoning.

 

[EternalDragon]

The order in which organisms appear in the fossil record is not compatible with the order in which they were created in Genesis. But this is getting off-topic, why don't you start another thread explaining how exactly you think the fossil record supports the Genesis narrative? I would like you to start by showing how plants are capable of surviving without the sun, and why they are absent from the fossil record until much after the animals but Genesis says they were created first.

There was light before the sun.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

The fossil record was not deposited by natural means over time. It was deposited by the flood.

 

[biggles53]

There was light before the sun.

Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

The fossil record was not deposited by natural means over time. It was deposited by the flood.

Just keep repeating that mantra......like a security blanket isn't it...?

 

[EternalDragon]

Just keep repeating that mantra......like a security blanket isn't it...?

I am merely pointing out a few misconceptions from CabVet and
answering his questions.

There was light for plants before the sun was created a day later
and 99% of the fossils we find today were buried in sediment by
the world wide flood.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am merely pointing out a few misconceptions from CabVet and
answering his questions.

There was light for plants before the sun was created a day later
and 99% of the fossils we find today were buried in sediment by
the world wide flood.

No, the fallacy of that claim has been shown thousands of time on this forum alone. The claim that fossils were made in the flood is debunked by the fossils themselves.

 

[biggles53]

I am merely pointing out a few misconceptions from CabVet and
answering his questions.

There was light for plants before the sun was created a day later
and 99% of the fossils we find today were buried in sediment by
the world wide flood.

Light without a light source...? Pretty neat trick...

Fossils with widely differing age measurements, but all made at the one time...? Pretty neat trick....

(Cue the magic in...5...4...3............)

 

[Old Ned]

(Cue the magic in...5...4...3............)

.......2..........1 .....

jesus magic trick - YouTube

 

[EternalDragon]

Light without a light source...? Pretty neat trick...

Fossils with widely differing age measurements, but all made at the one time...? Pretty neat trick....

(Cue the magic in...5...4...3............)

God is light.

Fossils don't come with age tags. Nor do rock layers.
I've asked for evidence that fossils are neatly buried
like they say. All I got was an admittance that fossils
are not neatly buried like they say.

 

[CabVet]

God is light.

Fossils don't come with age tags. Nor do rock layers.
I've asked for evidence that fossils are neatly buried
like they say. All I got was an admittance that fossils
are not neatly buried like they say.

And still no objective evidence of God… But by all means, keep going.

 

[CabVet]

I am merely pointing out a few misconceptions from CabVet and
answering his questions.

There was light for plants before the sun was created a day later
and 99% of the fossils we find today were buried in sediment by
the world wide flood.

Haha, a few "misconceptions", tell me, where exactly did that light before the sun come from? And while you are at it, please explain:

1) how exactly did a single flood create multiple different layers of sediment with different ages?
2) why do these different layers have consistently the same fossils in them (i.e. why no rabbits in the cambrian layers)?
3) and more importantly, why does the order in which organisms appear in the layers fit the explanations offered by evolution but completely contradict the Genesis narrative?

 

[Old Ned]

And still no objective evidence of God… But by all means, keep going.

I'm still waiting for an explanation from ED of how we test his Tree. I think that was like 14 pages ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God is light.

Fossils don't come with age tags. Nor do rock layers.
I've asked for evidence that fossils are neatly buried
like they say. All I got was an admittance that fossils
are not neatly buried like they say.

Wrong, you misunderstood how fossils are buried and found.

You keep blaming others for your own inadequacies. You will never learn anything if you keep doing that.

I see that you are still making the same mistakes that you made when you first came here. In other words you have not benefited from your time here at all.

 

[CabVet]

I'm still waiting for an explanation from ED of how we test his Tree. I think that was like 14 pages ago.

I say Zeus made it.

 

[Old Ned]

I say Zeus made it.

Seems legit. I'll go with that.

 

[EternalDragon]

I'm still waiting for an explanation from ED of how we test his Tree. I think that was like 14 pages ago.

And I am still waiting for testable proof that the tree (as well as everything else that exists) came from non-existence.