ICONO'CLAST
Well-Known Member
I do not think you understand what the term Covenant theology means.
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I do not think you understand what the term Covenant theology means.I didn't say they did on this particular post. But there have been others for years where the mocking has been intense. You are not a new member, so you know.
The reason for this post is Covenant Theology. NOTHING inside a covenant ceases, just as not a jot or a tittle ended until all was fulfilled in the Old Covenant. We are in a New Covenant, and the same rules apply to everything inside our covenant.
It is no theory, the plain reading of Acts 2 is indisputably foreign human languages. How does 1 Cor 14:2, taken in context, prove that tongues is a non-human language?
What are you referring to? An unsubstantiated claim of you commanding the instant healing someone of a broken back? Go on then tell us the story.
And what do you mean by hearing God's voice? A strong feeling or a thought popping into your head? Where in scripture is prophecy ever described as such? In scripture both public and personal prophecy is given as "Thus says the Lord..." (see Acts 21:11).
The Bible and the Spirit are joined as one thing to be authority, to teach, not just the Bible alone. The Bible says so.
Read the verses again. They did understand them.
Acts 2
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Given the definition of the Greek word, the context, etc, one is forced to say that this is merely the Holy Spirit allowing the disciples to speak languages they have had no study in nor knew. They were Galilaeans.
γλῶσσα glōssa, gloce-sah'; of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication, a language (specially, one naturally unacquired):—tongue.
- the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech
- a tongue
- the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations
Because they were mocking them.
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
People mock Christians all the time even today. When I was a worldly person, I've hung around the alcoholic scene plenty to know that they do not speak the gibberish people want to say "tongues" is today. They slur sure. Broken sentence structure, sure. But they were still able to speak their native language. Not the gibberish that goes on with people who want to believe miracles still happen now.
Since they were mocking them, it would be no surprise that they would state Peter and the others to be drunk off sweet wine grape juice.
120? Where did that number come in?
What is even more interesting, is that you believe in miracles, yet you somehow dont believe that these people could hear their own language. Also, it wasnt just Jews, verses 9-11 state many other different nations of people too.
Though, I personally do not find it that hard to differentiate my own language in crowded, diverse environments. Born in a heavy tourist happy location, we would get into events that were crowded full of people of different languages, all talking, and I can find out who is speaking English. Of course if they are close enough for my hearing in a crowed place. However, that is not a miraculous event either.
Because that was a miraculous event, it shouldn't be too hard to believe.
If you knew, why would we be discussing contrary to each other? Using scripture and the Greek wording, I have proven so. I am not using my opinions.
And so, I kindly refer you back to my very first posting. That is the evidence in scripture proving miracles are no longer.
I will have to look for an apologist web page to find the apparent contradiction first hand. There is a decimal error.
I start looking here: Internal consistency of the Bible - Wikipedia
I do not think you understand what the term Covenant theology means.
If one does not hold the bible as the only authority
Are you saying the devout Jews that heard them speaking in their languages were the mockers??? That's funny.
The 120 was in Acts 1:15
1 Corinthians 14:2 "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries."
Now using this rule, you can know that believing that in Acts 2 the disciples were speaking the language of the devout Jews, has to be in error.
I agree it is in plain speech, but you are focusing on the speaking rather than on the hearing. That is your first mistake. Thinking that God is contradicting 1 Corinthians 14:2 is your biggest mistake, as you don't respect God. The languages of tongues is of men and of angels, they could even be new languages, as seen at the tower of Babel, God is the one who creates languages.
I have already, but I'll see if I can find it. I do agree with you that it is a command, not just praying or hoping for God's will to be done. He has already given us that power individually. Mark 16:16-18 is for EVERY believer, not just the apostles; otherwise, only they would have needed to be baptized. But that is off topic. Now, do you believe we can command healing, or not?
You make it sound like a formula. LOL If God tells me something that is going to happen to me, I don't have to say to myself, Thus says the Lord for it to happen.
Your not reading scripture. I keep putting it down for you.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
It says the foreigners heard the disciples speaking in foreign languages. It couldn't be clearer:
Acts 2:6 "each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language"
1 Cor 14:2 is also referring to someone speaking a foreign human language in Corinth. If someone was speaking say Persian in a small Greek house church, it is no surprise that no one understood.
The reference of tongues of angels in 1 Cor 13:1 is hyperbole, not something Paul actually did. It is one of several other hyperbole listed in v1-3.
Well, let me know when you can think of your story where you commanded someone be to instantly healed of their diagnosed paralysis.
Read my answer above this. I just answered it.
What did the foreigners hear? It tells us exactly what they heard:
Acts 2:6 "each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language"
Read it again carefully.
every man heard them speak in his own language.
It was like a choir. Now do you understand what was really happening? What other supernatural ability lets you understand tongues?
Read it again carefully.
every man heard them speak in his own language.
It was like a choir. Now do you understand what was really happening? What other supernatural ability lets you understand tongues?
What do you make of this?'No,' is not an answer according to the scriptures that I have read.
Um, you just proved the point I was trying to get across.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
That IS the gift of tongues. To be able to speak a language you have never studied nor knew before until the Holy Spirit gave that gift.
I am glad you finally agree. We can rest this case then? Refer back to my very first post that miracles ceased after the bibles completion. Therefore they do not happen today.
What do you make of this?
James 4:3
When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.
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