Null

[sanderabeer]

null

 

[Durham Cicero]

I wouldn't take someone saying "God and family" to mean they're making their family "the center of God's affections" above every other family. Likewise, I don't take someone saying "God and country" to mean they're making their country the center of God's affections over and against all other countries. Acts 17:26 says that God established the nations of the world and maintains their existence (or lack thereof). God, then, seems to be involved in such affairs. Why not invoke Him?

 

[timothyu]

What say you? Is Jesus an American patriot?

Of course not. The world is backwards to the ways of the Kingdom. His good news was that the Father would take control away from man over man. Any nation can be judged according to Kingdom standards on just how un-self-centred that they are. Any nation that loves decisiveness amongst itself over human values, will fall, and is no friend to God. As Jesus said, give back to Caesar what is Caesar's as it is not of the Kingdom. He also says do not rebel but stay under the radar, doing what is good, both to friend and foe. God himself will destroy the governments of mankind.

 

[BobRyan]

Source: Jesus Is Not Your American Patriot

I think a lot of American Christians confuse American civil religion for Christianity. What say you? Is Jesus an American patriot?

The Bible says that Christians are good patriotic citizens.

Matt 22:21 Then He *said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.”

Rom 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

 

[Jermayn]

Source: Jesus Is Not Your American Patriot

I think a lot of American Christians confuse American civil religion for Christianity. What say you? Is Jesus an American patriot?

I wouldn't phrase it in that way, but I don't think Jesus has a problem with people being loyal to their family and country, so long as that loyalty doesn't take priority of their loyalty to him.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

I somehow doubt that our Lord would respect a secular republic that puts more faith in a piece of paper than in himself.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Source: Jesus Is Not Your American Patriot

I think a lot of American Christians confuse American civil religion for Christianity. What say you? Is Jesus an American patriot?

Firstly, Christ is the second person of the Trinity so no, Jesus was not an American Patriot.

Though I love patriots, they do love their neighbors.

The civil religion as you call it, is just loving ones actual neighbors and caring for their needs too as one is able.

I'm betting if there's a person complaining about Christians who also serve in the military and hold various public offices and vote their conscious at the ballot box and are patriotic to the nation they live because it's a benefit to many people, including themselves, then they are only complaining because they don't approve of the political views, not because there's Christians who are politically involved.

Nothing comes before God and our duty to Him, no love over that, but you can't judge those who care about their neighbors and doing the best they can to be a good citizen and neighbor, as the Scriptures say we should be both as best as we are able.

 

[trophy33]

Patriotism, nationalism should have no meaning for Christians. Christianity is not separated by borders or political institutions.

There is nothing Christian about putting my country before other countries or my city before other cities or my street before other streets etc.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Source: Jesus Is Not Your American Patriot

I think a lot of American Christians confuse American civil religion for Christianity. What say you? Is Jesus an American patriot?

There are very few honest forms of Jesus in this world but why would we expect that anyway?

I appreciate any attempts at good values

 

[Hazelelponi]

Patriotism, nationalism should have no meaning for Christians. Christianity is not separated by borders or political institutions.

There is nothing Christian about putting my country before other countries or my city before other cities or my street before other streets etc.

The Bride of Christ is not separated by any of those things, we have one faith, one Lord and Savior and one God if we are actually in Christ.

But we are to be good citizens of our respective nations, follow God above all things but there are meaningful and impactful things we can do as Christians who are living out a very real faith, to include touching politics.

God doesn't set his Bride in the corner and tell her to shut up when it comes to matters that affect the lives of millions of people.

She just better be sure she's the bride before deciding her opinions might be Biblical, when lived out.

But there's nothing wrong with being mayor of a city instead of something else etc etc. it's not unbiblical. We just didn't have voting back in Bible times, we had dictators.

It's a new world thanks to our Lord and Savior.

 

[trophy33]

But we are to be good citizens of our respective nations,

Nothing against that. But it is something different from "my country is above other countries" or from giving my country some religious pedestal or unjust priority "my country first".

When somebody lives in Europe, in which there are plenty of other nations/countries/cultures/languages to all directions withing the reach of few hours in a car, you see the world differently from somebody living in USA or Russia, where everything you see is just your country and you cannot really compare it to anything else. A dangerous form of patriotism/nationalism is mostly a problem of big and isolated countries. Or of isolated communities. Or of people who did not travel anywhere.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Nothing against that. But it is something different from "my country is above other countries" or from giving my country some religious pedestal.

When somebody lives in Europe, in which there are plenty of other nations/countries/cultures/languages to all directions withing the reach of few hours in a car, you see the world differently from somebody living in USA or Russia, where everything you see is just your country and think it is the whole world.

Everyone sees the world through the lens of the environment they grew up in... Are you any different? Am I?

Ultimately for the Bride the first "love your neighbor" consideration is the Bride herself no matter where she's found, and second are the people who live next door to you, or the people in your immediate area.

Now, if one from Europe sees things one way, and another from the US sees it another then we usually find out why there's differences and how we can seek to resolve those differences to satisfy the needs of both parties.

It only doesn't work when one party is trying to immanentize the eschaton, instead of living in reality, knowing that only Christ can do that, and it will only be done when He returns.

Until then, we live in a world that is fallen and imperfect, and ran by imperfect people at best. Even we are imperfect, though we have the Spirit of God in us.

You said" you see the world differently from somebody living in USA or Russia,"

I'm born in the US but I'm not native American, we have a far more culturally diverse life than anyone in Europe. If I want to visit a German immigrant actually from Germany, all I had to do was go to work for years, same with someone from India, a white European or two whose family immigrated here from long ago - cool stories some of those family stories go, and they are from all over Europe, not just one nation.

We are culturally and ethnically diverse and have been since our founding, here in the US, than any European nation ever dreamed of.

The US is an actual melting pot in ways you do not realize. But all of us here came from fighters .. so this country took a certain shape over time.

 

[trophy33]

Everyone sees the world through the lens of the environment they grew up in... Are you any different? Am I?

Yes, people can be different in mentality, based on where they live. If somebody lives in a city that is 1 hour from three neighboring countries and since childhood consumes TV programs in multiple languages, have multinational friends etc, his views about nationalism will be different from somebody born in the middle of the USA. When somebody (for example mass media or a politician) will say something to the isolated one (like "we are the best country and there is no freedom of speech in others" etc), he may fall for it much more easily, because of his isolation.

Ultimately for the Bride the first "love your neighbor" consideration is the Bride herself no matter where she's found, and second are the people who live next door to you, or the people in your immediate area.

Our immediate area changes whenever we move and throughout our life. In the end, we are simply to love everybody. Anything else is injustice.

As Christians, we will mostly prefer to live in freedom, liberal democracies, regulated capitalism, socialized healthcare etc. But this is not nationalism or about borders, these are values. Patriotism, nationalism may be more like "whether my country will turn to Nazism, Communism, slavery, racism, tyranny, whatever, I will still cling to it". Or about "if my country will do injustice to another country, I will still defend it, because it is my country". It is not about values, but about secular emotional bondage. And it is not Christian.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Yes, people can be different in mentality, based on where they live. If somebody lives in a city that is 1 hour from three neighboring countries and since childhood consumes TV programs in multiple languages, have multinational friends etc, his views about nationalism will be different from somebody born in the middle of the USA. When somebody (for example mass media or a politician) will say something to the isolated one (like "we are the best country and there is no freedom of speech in others" etc), he may fall for it much more easily, because of his isolation.


Our immediate area changes whenever we move and throughout our life. In the end, we are simply to love everybody. Anything else is injustice.

We do not fellowship with the world, there's limits to everything; we cannot engage in or approve sin, for example.

As Christians, we will mostly prefer to live in freedom, liberal democracies, regulated capitalism, socialized healthcare etc. But this is not nationalism or about borders, these are values. Patriotism, nationalism may be more like "whether my country will turn to Nazism, Communism, slavery, racism, tyranny, whatever, I will still cling to it". Or about "if my country will do injustice to another country, I will still defend it, because it is my country". It is not about values, but about secular emotional bondage. And it is not Christian

God decreed borders and nations. Each nation will have their own ways as a people. It's our watch to look after our own nation and people.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Source: Jesus Is Not Your American Patriot

I think a lot of American Christians confuse American civil religion for Christianity. What say you? Is Jesus an American patriot?

No. Jesus isn't an American patriot. He's not a patriot of any nation as far as I'm aware.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

The Bible says that Christians are good patriotic citizens.

Matt 22:21 Then He *said to them, “Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.”

Rom 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

These verses discuss obedience to civil government and living in harmony, rather than patriotism.

 

[trophy33]

These verses discuss obedience to civil government and living in harmony, rather than patriotism.

Yeah, I do not think the apostles were waving the Roman flags and cheering the emperors.

 

[FAITH-IN-HIM]

We do not fellowship with the world, there's limits to everything; we cannot engage in or approve sin, for example.

God decreed borders and nations. Each nation will have their own ways as a people. It's our watch to look after our own nation and people.

Since the resurrection of Christ, the Bible refers not to individual nations or peoples, but to the "body of Christ," encompassing all believers regardless of their nationality.

Taking care our own nation and own people does not exist in New Testament.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Source: Jesus Is Not Your American Patriot

I think a lot of American Christians confuse American civil religion for Christianity. What say you? Is Jesus an American patriot?

Is Jesus an American patriot? No, because American policies have never fully aligned with His teachings. And how do you define “American civil religion” in a country that has always been so divided on what is considered to be civil and what is considered to be religious?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

Patriotism, nationalism should have no meaning for Christians. Christianity is not separated by borders or political institutions.

There is nothing Christian about putting my country before other countries or my city before other cities or my street before other streets etc.

Where I'm Christianity do we find the abolishing of national communities? Does this extend to local communities as well?