Nudity in art

[cyclopes]

This point needs closer examination. Paradigm Man is right in his assertion that most Christian artist advocating drawing nudes would never pose nude themselves. What is it about the psychological profile of nude modelling that discourages Christians from posing nude? Could it be that Christians who draw nudes are condeming themselves in what they approve? Why should Christian artist have to rely on the unsaved population to supply nude models? Without the unsaved population which supplies the majority of nude models, there can be no drawing of nudes, at least not with the current accessibility. Why don't Christians start their own art clubs, etc, with nude models? This observation shouldn't be pushed under the rug, but confronted head on.

As a former nude model, I also ponder this point:

Why is it that so many christians unopposed to drawing nudes are so modest about their own bodies? They don't mind drawing nudes, but they would never be a nude. Is there a double standard at work? I run across this mentality all the time from christians unopposed to drawing nudes. If they cry modesty, then why their modesty and not the model's modesty? Could it be that they hold themselves to a higher moral standard than they hold the models to? Incidently, the nudes they are drawing are almost always not christians, so you have christians drawing nude non-christians. HHHhhmm .

 

[HeatherJay]

This point needs closer examination. Paradigm Man is right in his assertion that most Christian artist advocating drawing nudes would never pose nude themselves. What is it about the psychological profile of nude modelling that discourages Christians from posing nude? Could it be that Christians who draw nudes are condeming themselves in what they approve? Why should Christian artist have to rely on the unsaved population to supply nude models? Without the unsaved population which supplies the majority of nude models, there can be no drawing of nudes, at least not with the current accessibility. Why don't Christians start their own art clubs, etc, with nude models? This observation shouldn't be pushed under the rug, but confronted head on.

I think it's a big mistake to presume to know the hearts of the majority of nude models. Who are you to say whether or not they're Christian? Unless you have had conversations about religion with every nude model you've ever known? I would find that unlikely since there's a unspoken rule that artists and models don't socialize during a figure drawing class. And if you're in the habit of hanging out with the same nude models AFTER class that you have to draw IN class, then I would call that yet another mistake. It's impossible to remain objective if you have a personal relationship with the individual model...and having a personal relationship with these nude models you draw is far more a moral danger than drawing a random nude form.

 

[cyclopes]

I've worked at a number of art departments at various universities and art schools throughout the country and abroad. I've also worked at art galleries. I've talked "religion" with numerous nude models in America and abroad. I've discovered that very few nude models were professing Christians. Most from my experience are very liberal and bohemia. You shall know them by their fruits.

I think it's a big mistake to presume to know the hearts of the majority of nude models. Who are you to say whether or not they're Christian? Unless you have had conversations about religion with every nude model you've ever known? I would find that unlikely since there's a unspoken rule that artists and models don't socialize during a figure drawing class. And if you're in the habit of hanging out with the same nude models AFTER class that you have to draw IN class, then I would call that yet another mistake. It's impossible to remain objective if you have a personal relationship with the individual model...and having a personal relationship with these nude models you draw is far more a moral danger than drawing a random nude form.

 

[HeatherJay]

Whether they are 'professing' or otherwise, only God can judge their hearts.

 

[cyclopes]

There is a false dichotomy between the relationship of models and students in and out of the class. Students and models do socialize frequently outside of the figure drawing class, especially in your smaller colleges and universities.

Sexual liaisons are actually quite common among models and students, especially at art schools. To mitigate concupiscence, some colleges and universities actually have a policy of hiring models off campus.

Figure drawing as it is currenty taught is antiquated. Its no secret that figure drawing is a very artifical activity. Everybody is pretending the model isn't human; the models are treated as abstractions of lines and angles. This is very dehumanizing and antithetical to biblical principals. Models should always be viewed as human. At figure drawing open sessions I frequented, the artist frequently talked to the models while they posed, and this in no way compromised the professionalism of the artist or models. I found it to be much more humane and real than my experiences at colleges and universities. There is a movement within figure drawing circles to reform how these classes are taught, placing a high emphasis on the model's humanity and doing away with the sterile manner in which figure drawing is currently taught.

Since the Lordship of Christ should permeate all areas of life, why shouldn't the saved model witness to the unsaved student in or out of the the figure drawing class? Christians are the salt and light of the earth (Matthew 5:13,14). Why should this salt and light be denigned access in the figure drawing class or outside of it?

I would find that unlikely since there's a unspoken rule that artists and models don't socialize during a figure drawing class. And if you're in the habit of hanging out with the same nude models AFTER class that you have to draw IN class, then I would call that yet another mistake. It's impossible to remain objective if you have a personal relationship with the individual model...and having a personal relationship with these nude models you draw is far more a moral danger than drawing a random nude form.

 

[ElElohe]

I wasn't aware of this where I was, but as I've stated the models went to my church. Doesn't mean it didn't happen but . . .

Sexual liaisons are actually quite common among models and students, especially at art schools. To mitigate concupiscence, some colleges and universities actually have a policy of hiring models off campus.

I don't understand this:

Figure drawing as it is currenty taught is antiquated. Its no secret that figure drawing is a very artifical activity. Everybody is pretending the model isn't human; the models are treated as abstractions of lines and angles. This is very dehumanizing and antithetical to biblical principals.

It was certainly not my experience. I don't mean to say it isn't true some places, but not where I studied.

 

[Petercurious]

Why don't Christians start their own art clubs, etc, with nude models? This observation shouldn't be pushed under the rug, but confronted head on.

Not a bad idea!! Where are you based now?

 

[cyclopes]

I've spoken to numerous nude models with stories of students making sexual advances on them. Nude modelling is a very immodest act, which can have dire consequences associated with it. When a person bares it all, they attract a certain persona, regardless of their wishes. There have been cases of female models being harrassed by male students, even receiving obscence phone calls. To mitigate concupiscence among models and student, some colleges and universities strictly enforce off campus hiring policies for models . This off campus hiring policy has a particular relevance in our current crime ridden society. Put yourself in the position of models, especially attractive female models.

Sexual liaisons are actually quite common among models and students, especially at art schools. To mitigate concupiscence, some colleges and universities actually have a policy of hiring models off campus.

 

[Petercurious]

When a person bares it all, they attract a certain persona, regardless of their wishes.

All I can say from the classes I've been in is that this has not been my experience. Unwelcome attention is not unknown but I don't believe it's the norm.

In our society there are (sadly)many other ways of seeing the naked form - a drawing class where you have to sit for a couple of hours & work quite hard is not the first place you would go.

 

[cyclopes]

I'm referring particularly to the college scene, not among older more mature, professional artist. Furthermore, life drawing open sessions don't have teachers; thus, there is the unspoken expectation that every one who walks through the door will conduct themselves professionally, which unfortunately isn't always the case, especially at colleges.

Demographics can come into play. For instance, in the San Fransisco area of California, there was a time when it wasn't too unusual for the adult film industry to approach life models that were believed to be suitable material for the industry.

All I can say from the classes I've been in is that this has not been my experience. Unwelcome attention is not unknown but I don't believe it's the norm.

 

[Petercurious]

point taken!

 

[cze_026]

Frankly, I don't get why it is such a big deal. It's a body. We all have one. Having worked on both sides of the life drawing issue I can honestly say I have never seen, nor witnessed any inappropriate or non-professional behaviour. We typically shared break time, and most of the models were fellow students (not necessarily art students - I wasn't, I just enjoyed art for arts sake) This includes college classes and private art groups. I wouldn't pose now, but not for any modesty reasons. I'm just awful at it. I can not sit still that long without concentrating on something. This is nothing new, I have always been that way.

I appreciate the nude in art. But not erotic art, fetish art, or inappropriate contentography (works of a salicious nature). Having been raised in an art loving family and spent time in Europe, I have tremendous appreciation for the human form, and can spend time with the nude form and (gasp) control any hormonal urges. But then, I was raised not to equate naked with sex.

On a compositional note, there are works containing the nude that I just don't like (not including figure studies). The nude form needs to be part of the picture. Like Lunch in the Park , which has a nude woman having a picnic with several clothed men. I appreciate the mastery of the painting, but the subject doesn't grab me. Her nudity, to me is just gratuitous.

As to my personal work, I use the nude as a study. As for as my finished works, I have no nudes. Not one of my current compostions would be enriched by having a nude figure, male or female. I do have some implied nudes, mostly of a portrait nature, but no true nudes.

As to Paradigms man's continous assertions "As a former nude model . . .", methinks he doth protest to much. I am unable to prove whether he was or was not a life drawing model, but his used car salesman-esqe approach raises many doubts to my mind. In all the life drawing situations I have participated, the only ogling was from the long required eye contact with the model. When drawing anything, most of your time should be spent observing the subject, and not on the paper.

And as to the assertion that 99% if life drawing models are not-Chritians, I would love to see solid statistical evidence to back that puppy up. Not, "well I discussed religion with some of them . . ." I don't recall ever a model being asked his or her religion. Having spent my whole life in predominately Christian environment, I seriously doubt this statistic is at all true. In my college's life drawing class, there was a woman who claimed to be a Wiccan. She was an interesting model, at 5'4", in almost any given direction. The rest were at least raised in one Christian denomination or another. Since we never asked, I couldn't say with any degree of certainty if they were regular participants, twice a year attendees, or lapsed Christians. But that was their business, not ours. The task at hand was to learn from the human form.

Cze

 

[HeatherJay]

I couldn't agree more, Cze. Welcome to CF!

 

[ElElohe]

On a compositional note, there are works containing the nude that I just don't like (not including figure studies). The nude form needs to be part of the picture. Like Lunch in the Park , which has a nude woman having a picnic with several clothed men. I appreciate the mastery of the painting, but the subject doesn't grab me. Her nudity, to me is just gratuitous.

I agree with this and there are other works. This is really quite an oddity (save for the arguable fact that the female body is more beautiful).

As to my personal work, I use the nude as a study. As for as my finished works, I have no nudes. Not one of my current compostions would be enriched by having a nude figure, male or female. I do have some implied nudes, mostly of a portrait nature, but no true nudes

I think if you study some of the greats this is sometimes the case as well. It is valid to understand not just the skin, but the bone and muscle structure under the skin, in order to better ones figures clothed or nude.

 

[Telrunya]

While I personally am not an artist, my wife is. We have had this discussion before. As many have pointed out there is a wide difference between a nude art picture which is designed to convey a message and inappropriate contentography which is designed only to insight lust. My wife uses nude models for some of her work. The finished pictures are rarely nude though. We had a long and rather fun argument about our comic book story that I discuss in my intro at length. I say fun because we both enjoyed the argument and I say argument because we were on opposite sides of the issue. The issue was one of our main characters is of a race that would not normally wear clothing. My wife had no problem drawing this female character nude. My point is that nudity was inappropriate for the venue. In the end we compromised and there is the suggestion of nudity without exposing anything. In some of her fine art works though I have no problem at all with the way she will use nudity to convey a sense of vulnerability or openness.

 

[Risen Tree]

she will use nudity to convey a sense of vulnerability or openness.

I like this. This is precisely the image that nudity projects.

 

[tweek821]

I think nudity in art has become perverted. The artists of the Classical period into the Baroque used the human body as their means of expressing the ideal body (the young, nude, atheltic male as in Michelangelo's David) But in these recent years, with the slow chnage in art from good to ****, nudity is now a means of shock factor...not beauty.

 

[marmosa]

I dug this up in the thread and it needs repeating.

How could you ask me the same thing? You stated that This is not meant to sexually arouse someone. I didn't state that it was. You talk as if you know his motive. How could you know his motive? He may have not known his motive himself.

I assume this topic isn't about anatomical illustration for scientific purposes but genitalia as art. Nakedness, since the fall, is always associated with shame. Adam & Eve recognized this and God didn't correct them (saying, "you shouldn't be ashamed") but provided them coverings that required the shedding of blood. This was the FIRST response to the FIRST sin. It's very basic.
Ham told of his father's nakedness, but Shem & Japheth covered it.
God told Moses, "Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon."
Regarding the priests He said, "And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach".
Exodus 32: 25 ...Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies

Nakedness was a punishment from God in order to induce SHAME on the offender:
Isaiah 20: 4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
Isaiah 47: 3 Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen...
Nahum 3: 5 Behold, I am against thee, saith the LORD ... I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame.
Habakuk 2: 15 Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink ... that thou mayest look on their nakedness
Revelation 3: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me ... white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear
Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
1 Corinthians 12:23 refers to genitals as "uncomely" and are to be covered.
Let's not be niave. You may have the unsensuality of a robot when you're drawing the genitals of the opposet sex (although I have no objective reason to believe that - you could be deceived) but viewers are going to view what God repeatedly says to keep covered. You, as an artist, have a responsibility before God to your viewers as to what you're dangling before their eyes.


Michealangelo may not be the best example to follow.

 

[Knights_cross]

i have drawn some nudes,and have used models on occassion,sometimes it can be hard to stay focused on what your drawing or painting...i think what someone earlier said, that the body was a temple and was meant to be looked at was right...but unfortunately what happened in the garden changed that...But art is life,life is nude,at least sometimes.

 

[cyclopes]

Why is it that so few replies to this thread have come from nude models? This observation supports the assertion of Paradigm Man, Tambora, and myself that very few Christians pose nude for art classes. Surely a thread of this nature should have more responces from Christian nude models, so why the silence? Me thinks the silence results from a scarcity of Christian nude models, as Paradigm Man, Tambora, and I have posited. The replies to this thread are skewed heavily towards artist (99%) and very scare in respect to nude models (less than one percent). Most intriguing, Mr Watson.

You make an excellent observation, Paradigm Man. The vast majority of christians unopposed to drawing nudes would never pose nude themselves. As a former figure drawing teacher, I can attest to the fact that the vast majority (99%) of nude models aren't christians, so christians who draw nudes are drawing nude unbelievers. It's doubtful if drawing nudes could exist without the unbelieving population willing to disrobe for art classes.