Nothing changes in this forum.

[Speedwell]

And it seems the posting history of everyone I ask for proof says nope, there is no such thing as proof, science doesn't show proof, when that is exactly what science does. I can't understand it if they won't preset it. However, I'm going to give you a shot at it.

Explain it to me. Take your first section there, that is assuming it's evidence that shows evolution is a fact, and explain exactly what is going on, you know so a 7 yr old can understand it. Then sum up why/how that makes evolution a fact.

Fair enough? I'm assuming you understand it well enough that shouldn't be a problem for you.

Why do you suppose it is simple enough for a 7 year old to understand it?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Why do you suppose it is simple enough for a 7 year old to understand it?

Why do you suppose it isn't?

 

[pitabread]

These are 'ancestors' that are already very complex, so they have already 'evolved'. The evolutionary 'tree' has to start with a single life form; the first one.

Okay. And?

(Although I'd argue we're getting into overly simplified territory, given both the fuzzy boundary between life and non-life and the fact it wouldn't necessarily be a single life form, but rather a population.)

 

[Speedwell]

Why do you suppose it isn't?

Because I do understand it. I would say it takes at a minumum solid high school biology and math, and preferably at least introductory college level bio and genetics to be able to get a real grip on it. What is taught about evolution at the high school level is merely descriptive and doesn't get to the details of the underlying genetics at all. Take yourself as an example. You still don't understand what the theory itself says about how evolution is supposed to take place, much less know anything about why evolutionary biologists believe those claims to be valid.

 

[pitabread]

I would say it takes at a minumum solid high school biology and math, and preferably at least introductory college level bio and genetics to be able to get a real grip on it.

Agreed. I'd say high school level biology as a background to get into the subject, and any textbooks about evolution are going to be written at the university level.

The good news though is there are free university-level courses available online about evolution (one from Yale and another from Duke University). There really is no excuse not to acquire the knowledge if one is so inclined.

This is why creationist challenges to have people "prove" evolution to them are so disingenuous. Anyone with internet access already has access to plenty of resources on the subject. It just takes some time and effort.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Because I do understand it. I would say it takes at a minumum solid high school biology and math, and preferably at least introductory college level bio and genetics to be able to get a real grip on it. What is taught about evolution at the high school level is merely descriptive and doesn't get to the details of the underlying genetics at all. Take yourself as an example. You still don't understand what the theory itself says about how evolution is supposed to take place, much less know anything about why evolutionary biologists believe those claims to be valid.

Offering excuses this early, and when I didn't even ask you to do a thing...bad sign.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Okay. And?

(Although I'd argue we're getting into overly simplified territory, given both the fuzzy boundary between life and non-life and the fact it wouldn't necessarily be a single life form, but rather a population.)

A population starts with a single life form.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

It is ultimately the student's duty to work hard and study the materials and concepts given by the teacher. The teacher can only guide.

Some kids need more time. Let's give them more time. We are rich in time, so why is the education system in such a big hurry.

We can't have laws for that because it really is the person's choice to behave as they want. Otherwise, everyone (even you) would end up in jail for stuff like lying and eating fast food two times a week.

I said laws that promote good results, not laws that if broken put people in jail.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Ok, make your proposal for these specific laws and what the punishment should be and how we determine the laws are broken.

I didn't mention specific laws, yet.

 

[DogmaHunter]

And it seems the posting history of everyone I ask for proof says nope, there is no such thing as proof, science doesn't show proof, when that is exactly what science does. I can't understand it if they won't preset it. However, I'm going to give you a shot at it.

Still not clear on the difference between proof and evidence ha?

Explain it to me. Take your first section there, that is assuming it's evidence that shows evolution is a fact, and explain exactly what is going on, you know so a 7 yr old can understand it. Then sum up why/how that makes evolution a fact.

Viral DNA gets inserted in DNA of infected host organism, producing an ERV.
Host makes babies.
Babies inherit ERV.

Humans and chimps share thousands of ERV's.

You may begin your strawman and subsequent denial now.

Fair enough? I'm assuming you understand it well enough that shouldn't be a problem for you.

The problem, is not on our side of the fence.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Why do you suppose it isn't?

Because unless you are willing to accept the evidence presented by experts, your only other option is studying it so that you can review the evidence yourself and do your own experiments and studies. And that's a university class. More then one, actually.

 

[Jjmcubbin]

Some kids need more time. Let's give them more time. We are rich in time, so why is the education system in such a big hurry.



I said laws that promote good results, not laws that if broken put people in jail.

I find it funny. Claims
1)Medicine has SECRET to good health.
2) Everyone knows the SECRET, doctors should persuade people more
3) They do. Well, like students, some need more time (for what? There are no concepts here)
4) The education system is horrible.

Does anyone else see the jumps?

Laws, when broken, have a punishment specified. If there is no punishment, no one will obey the law. Rewards? What is a better reward than extra life? People still don't live healthy.

 

[juvenissun]

I'm sure in another ten years things in here will be exactly the same. People will still be making unfounded claims, still be creating strawmen and still be ignorant of facts on so many levels. It's a shame. Even the Pope accepts evolution. He says that if God chose to create the world this way then who is he to question it? You all could learn something from this Pope.

Of course, the topics will hardly change. But that is not the point.
People change. That is the main function of this forum.
I was a creationist. I am still a creationist. Did I change?
Of course. now, I am a better creationist, a more faithful creationist.

 

[juvenissun]

What is the personal motivation in that situation? What possible reason would such an individual feel the need to "defend" evolution simply because it was part of their education? Would they not be interested in the best understanding of biology possible? Would it not be to their ultimate benefit given the context of their work?

I said this for a long long time.
Take the concept of evolution off his mind, he still CAN do his job perfectly.
I emphasize it again: All he need is logic, not a trace of ToE.

Tell me ONE instance that he needs ToE to do his job.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Of course, the topics will hardly change. But that is not the point.
People change. That is the main function of this forum.
I was a creationist. I am still a creationist. Did I change?
Of course. now, I am a better creationist, a more faithful creationist.

I agree. The frequency of saying silly and downright bizar things, is definatly increasing in your posts

 

[DogmaHunter]

I said this for a long long time.
Take the concept of evolution off his mind, he still CAN do his job perfectly.
I emphasize it again: All he need is logic, not a trace of ToE.

Tell me ONE instance that he needs ToE to do his job.

Applications of evolution - Wikipedia

 

[Speedwell]

Offering excuses this early, and when I didn't even ask you to do a thing...bad sign.

You asked me a question and I answered it.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Laws, when broken, have a punishment specified. If there is no punishment, no one will obey the law. Rewards? What is a better reward than extra life? People still don't live healthy.

If you don't care for your health, the 'laws' of health will punish you, as you allude to above. But we could pass a law that protects healthy people from the thoughtlessness of unhealthy people re insurance rates.

We could pass a law that impounds a person's vehicle during the time of their driving suspension or revocation. There are thousands driving under suspension right now, and many are drunk drivers.

If we made a law that prohibits mistreatment of prisoners we would have better rehab outcomes, less recidivism. If prison administrators and staff allowed mistreatment they would be punished by being fired.

We could pass a law that requires those convicted of crimes to pay for the damage they do plus all law enforcement costs, plus contributing to a 'criminal damage insurance fund' to pay for large criminal damage claims.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Well, like students, some need more time (for what? There are no concepts here)

For individual attention for those who need it. It is the teacher's responsibility to make sure every student 'gets it'. Except for learning disabilities there are few students who cannot achieve passing grades in most subjects if properly taught. It must be remembered that most kids are in school against their will. This must be considered when attempting to include 'student cooperation' in any curriculum. If kids are allowed to perform below their abilities society will perform below it's ability.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I find it funny. Claims
1)Medicine has SECRET to good health.
2) Everyone knows the SECRET, doctors should persuade people more

Put my statement to the test. Do you know the 'secret' of health? Do any of your family and friends? The 'secret' can be expressed in one word. Do you know what that word is? (I posed this question some time ago and nobody got it.)