"Nothing can ever change my faith"

[leftrightleftrightleft]

"Nothing can ever change my faith."

I have heard this said by countless Christians on this website repeatedly when asked if anything would make them change their minds.

How can someone say this? Is this not the definition of a close-minded statement? No evidence, no life experience, no argument, no authority, no discovery...nothing can ever change your faith?

What if archaeologists found a new site full of ancient documents from the 1st century similar in scope to the Dead Sea scrolls that gave very detailed accounts of Paul and other apostles admitting they made it all up? Would you just call it a hoax and ignore reality?

What if you go to India and have a profound, spiritual experience in a Buddhist monastery in the Himilayas in which you realize the folly of your ways? Would you chalk it up to demonic possession?

What if you have a vision or dream where God comes to you and vividly explains that the Bible is a miscommunication and he is giving you a new covenant to write down and spread? Hallucination again?

So, anything that confirms your faith, like a dream or vision from God telling you Jesus is the Son of God, is TRUE while all other dreams are visions are from the devil? So anything that confirms your faith, like a profound spiritual experience in your Western church during worship is an act of God while any other profound spiritual experience in a Buddhist monastery is dangerous and evil? So any evidence that confirms your faith, like chariots in the Red Sea or seashells on mountain tops is legitimate while all else is a hoax or false or incomplete?

And within all this you expect other people to change. But what if they have the same degree of faith in another thing? You are saying that you will never change but you expect other people to change through missionary work and the like.

If you ask me to try to be "open-minded" and try to understand the Bible and God and try to alter my worldview, then can I legitimately ask you to do the same and perhaps you will find a greater truth and find the folly of your current ways?

Your vision from God is demonic possession to another. Just as their demonic possession to you is a vision from God to them.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Closed minds.

 

[drich0150]

"Nothing can ever change my faith."

I have heard this said by countless Christians on this website repeatedly when asked if anything would make them change their minds.

How can someone say this? Is this not the definition of a close-minded statement? No evidence, no life experience, no argument, no authority, no discovery...nothing can ever change your faith?

What if archaeologists found a new site full of ancient documents from the 1st century similar in scope to the Dead Sea scrolls that gave very detailed accounts of Paul and other apostles admitting they made it all up? Would you just call it a hoax and ignore reality?

What if you go to India and have a profound, spiritual experience in a Buddhist monastery in the Himilayas in which you realize the folly of your ways? Would you chalk it up to demonic possession?

What if you have a vision or dream where God comes to you and vividly explains that the Bible is a miscommunication and he is giving you a new covenant to write down and spread? Hallucination again?

So, anything that confirms your faith, like a dream or vision from God telling you Jesus is the Son of God, is TRUE while all other dreams are visions are from the devil? So anything that confirms your faith, like a profound spiritual experience in your Western church during worship is an act of God while any other profound spiritual experience in a Buddhist monastery is dangerous and evil? So any evidence that confirms your faith, like chariots in the Red Sea or seashells on mountain tops is legitimate while all else is a hoax or false or incomplete?

And within all this you expect other people to change. But what if they have the same degree of faith in another thing? You are saying that you will never change but you expect other people to change through missionary work and the like.

If you ask me to try to be "open-minded" and try to understand the Bible and God and try to alter my worldview, then can I legitimately ask you to do the same and perhaps you will find a greater truth and find the folly of your current ways?

Your vision from God is demonic possession to another. Just as their demonic possession to you is a vision from God to them.

I know I can't speak for everyone in the faith, but let me help rephrase your understanding in that there are no "What if's" that will change my faith. How about you produce something substaintial and then we will talk. Otherwise know all you have is "pie in the sky hopes" and that in of itself will never do.

This is not close minded thinking by any streach, it is called faithfulness. A Man who is faithful to his wife, closed minded? Is a man who will not speak about what it would take to cheat on his wife closed minded? What is wrong with not wanting to bargin in what if's about cheating on his wife? When you look at us you may only see a closed mind, and that is your right. On the other hand when I look back i see sour grapes because you can not even get past the intergerity of our devotion. Of all things why would this matter to someone of "other" faith?

 

[Aconba]

...

 

[andreha]

Someone who invites God's Holy Spirit into his heart cannot turn away from the truth, because of God's faithfulness. We may fail, but He never will. Once you have seen the glory of God, you can't turn away from it.

 

[DCJazz]

"Nothing can ever change my faith."

I have heard this said by countless Christians on this website repeatedly when asked if anything would make them change their minds.

Good on them.

How can someone say this? Is this not the definition of a close-minded statement? No evidence, no life experience, no argument, no authority, no discovery...nothing can ever change your faith?

I think it takes a pretty open mind to accept God, actually. That there's more to it than living and dying and rotting in the ground. Also even if I had an open mind to other faiths, there is absolutely no obligation to consider them as true.

What if archaeologists found a new site full of ancient documents from the 1st century similar in scope to the Dead Sea scrolls that gave very detailed accounts of Paul and other apostles admitting they made it all up? Would you just call it a hoax and ignore reality?

Hasn't happened yet, has it? That's what I thought.

What if you go to India and have a profound, spiritual experience in a Buddhist monastery in the Himilayas in which you realize the folly of your ways? Would you chalk it up to demonic possession?

You are assuming a lot here, and you also show a bit of bias it seems. You are first assuming that any spiritual experience at said monastery is a direct result of the Buddhist faith, and not God, and second that the Buddhist faith is more true than Christianity, or the 'folly" as you put it.

What if you have a vision or dream where God comes to you and vividly explains that the Bible is a miscommunication and he is giving you a new covenant to write down and spread? Hallucination again?

So you're saying God messed up then. Even though he's perfect. Way to go.
By saying the Bible is a miscommunication, you're saying not only is God as messed up as humans are, but that he'd change his mind about everything he's promised, thus breaking said promises. Sorry, but I highly doubt that'll ever happen.

So, anything that confirms your faith, like a dream or vision from God telling you Jesus is the Son of God, is TRUE while all other dreams are visions are from the devil? So anything that confirms your faith, like a profound spiritual experience in your Western church during worship is an act of God while any other profound spiritual experience in a Buddhist monastery is dangerous and evil? So any evidence that confirms your faith, like chariots in the Red Sea or seashells on mountain tops is legitimate while all else is a hoax or false or incomplete?

Are you saying you have 100% true evidence that disproves Christianity? Oh, theories don't count by the way. Maybe those scrolls you mentioned earlier? The ones that don't exist? :3

And within all this you expect other people to change.

I'm actually very pessimistic about that. If they do change and become a Christian it was a result of them opening up to God, not anything I did. It's between them and God. So if they change, they change. If they don't... I won't be surprised.

But what if they have the same degree of faith in another thing? You are saying that you will never change but you expect other people to change through missionary work and the like.

Oh I haven't said this. You're generalizing. I'm sure there's some sort of logical fallacy to cover this but not only am I too lazy to look it up at the moment, I don't want to start a "fallacy war".

If you ask me to try to be "open-minded" and try to understand the Bible and God and try to alter my worldview, then can I legitimately ask you to do the same and perhaps you will find a greater truth and find the folly of your current ways?

If you expect me to be open-minded about anything you have to say, you really shouldn't say that my faith is nothing but a "folly". It screams "moron, idiot, fool" to me. I also don't appreciate it happening from this side of the fence either, btw. So don't think I'm defending those 'Christians' that look down on others for not accepting Christ.

Your vision from God is demonic possession to another. Just as their demonic possession to you is a vision from God to them.

And in those days, they will call good 'evil', and evil 'good'. Guess that prophecy came true after all.

Bottom line: So what if they say they'll never change their faith? That's their choice; it doesn't make them close-minded, it just means they've made up their minds.

 

[Aconba]

...

 

[Aconba]

...

 

[Sketcher]

If someone was truly a Christian and rejected it, they'll come back. And they'll wish they never left.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I know I can't speak for everyone in the faith, but let me help rephrase your understanding in that there are no "What if's" that will change my faith. How about you produce something substaintial and then we will talk. Otherwise know all you have is "pie in the sky hopes" and that in of itself will never do.

That's my whole point. My whole post is a series of what ifs. I'm not making a post trying to disprove Christianity using hard evidence. I'm suggesting the possibility that evidence could arise at any moment and if you are not open-minded enough to see it then you will be blinded of the truth. If one claims that nothing can change their faith then nothing in the future will. They have such a close-minded ideology that they can't even entertain the idea of what ifs as legitimate; simply as hypotheticals. I often enjoy hypothetical situations because they force your brain to think in different ways and make fewer assumptions about the world. Books like 1984 play on hypotheticals and they are interesting because they force you to consider how the world could be and maybe our assumptions about government and politics are biased.

This is not close minded thinking by any streach, it is called faithfulness. A Man who is faithful to his wife, closed minded? Is a man who will not speak about what it would take to cheat on his wife closed minded? What is wrong with not wanting to bargin in what if's about cheating on his wife? When you look at us you may only see a closed mind, and that is your right. On the other hand when I look back i see sour grapes because you can not even get past the intergerity of our devotion. Of all things why would this matter to someone of "other" faith?

I don't believe in true love so a man committing himself to his wife is not the same as someone committing themselves to God. A man committing himself to his wife is a commitment with the knowledge that there are 7 billion people in the world and many have similar qualities to his wife but he chooses to be with her because he wants to and thinks it is the best choice for him and he loves her dearly and does not want to spend his life with anyone else despite the fact that other potential wives exist. This would only be analogous if commitment to God meant a commitment to one of many gods, many of which could fulfill the same needs and desires. But the Christian idea of commitment to God is a belief that he is the only god and that this fact is pure and absolute truth. Its like saying that the man's wife is his only possible wife ever and no other possible wives exist.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I think it takes a pretty open mind to accept God, actually. That there's more to it than living and dying and rotting in the ground. Also even if I had an open mind to other faiths, there is absolutely no obligation to consider them as true.

It also takes an open-mind to accept the God of Hinduism, the God of Islam, the truth of karma, the truth of the tao. Yet you do not consider any of these options. So are you not being open-minded enough or are the believers of these other religions not being open-minded enough?

A Muslim could say the exact same thing that you just said by the way.

Hasn't happened yet, has it? That's what I thought.

I'm not out to disprove Christianity using hypotheticals. I'm saying that the consequences of such a "nothing will change my beliefs"-philosophy is that evidence becomes meaningless. One has to limit one's free mind from thinking certain thoughts because "what ifs" become something negative to be feared.

You are assuming a lot here, and you also show a bit of bias it seems. You are first assuming that any spiritual experience at said monastery is a direct result of the Buddhist faith, and not God, and second that the Buddhist faith is more true than Christianity, or the 'folly" as you put it.

You have totally missed the point of my post. The entire post is hypothetical. If you had a spiritual experience in a monastery that changed you into a Buddhist, you would have, by definition, realized the folly of your Christian ways. If this, then that. But you refuse to acknowledge that as even a remote possibility.

And you are actually the one that assumed the spiritual experience at the Buddhist monastery is from the Buddhist faith. I only said it was a Buddhist monastery and you had a spiritual experience there; the spiritual experience did not have to be a direct result of anything remotely Buddhist. And we both neglected to assume that the spiritual experience came from Zeus, Vishnu, or Ra.

So you're saying God messed up then. Even though he's perfect. Way to go.
By saying the Bible is a miscommunication, you're saying not only is God as messed up as humans are, but that he'd change his mind about everything he's promised, thus breaking said promises. Sorry, but I highly doubt that'll ever happen.

Here you've made the assumption that the Bible is true. In this hypothetical situation, God didn't mess up, the Bible was a miscommunication entirely; a misguided creation of humanity. A complete fabrication of the human mind. He comes to you to right the wrongs that humanity has caused. God himself comes to you and says you need to do X and Y. But if nothing will ever change your steadfast faith, then you will ignore him and chalk it up to possession or hallucination?

Are you saying you have 100% true evidence that disproves Christianity? Oh, theories don't count by the way. Maybe those scrolls you mentioned earlier? The ones that don't exist? :3

Once again, you've missed the entire point of the post. Its all hypothetical. I'm not trying to disprove Christianity, all I'm saying is that you COULD be wrong. You COULD be. Just because you could be does not imply that I suddenly have all the answers. I COULD be wrong. Just as you COULD be wrong you COULD also be right. But I don't understand how you can be 100% sure.

Oh I haven't said this. You're generalizing. I'm sure there's some sort of logical fallacy to cover this but not only am I too lazy to look it up at the moment, I don't want to start a "fallacy war".

The post wasn't written to you. It was a hypothetical post that was written to a general "you". I was never accusing you specifically of saying anything. I didn't even know you existed when I wrote this post...I am generalizing, that's the whole point.

I feel like my post was an epic fail because I didn't convey the fact that it was hypothetical...

If you expect me to be open-minded about anything you have to say, you really shouldn't say that my faith is nothing but a "folly". It screams "moron, idiot, fool" to me. I also don't appreciate it happening from this side of the fence either, btw. So don't think I'm defending those 'Christians' that look down on others for not accepting Christ.

My post was hypothetical. I'm saying your views COULD be a folly just as much as they COULD be correct. I listed some hypothetical situations which would indicate your position as folly. You took this as some sort of personal attack. My apologies, I wasn't directing the message at you.

And in those days, they will call good 'evil', and evil 'good'. Guess that prophecy came true after all.

The Greek philosophers were pondering this stuff before the Bible was even written down. This prophecy can't "come true" because it's been happening since before the prophecy was even written.

Bottom line: So what if they say they'll never change their faith? That's their choice; it doesn't make them close-minded, it just means they've made up their minds.

Same can be said of you, right? Does that make you right and them wrong?

 

[JasperJackson]

Life's too short to concern myself with hypothetical situations. I'll just follow the evidence where it leads.

 

[FaithPrevails]

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[Noxot]

men are not wise enough for me to put my faith in them over God.

 

[pinkputter]

Someone who invites God's Holy Spirit into his heart cannot turn away from the truth, because of God's faithfulness. We may fail, but He never will. Once you have seen the glory of God, you can't turn away from it.

AMEN!

Just what I was thinking and you have it worded so nicely.

This is kinda silly compared to knowing God's existence, but we know we have mental capacity because of an organ (our brain) in our head. We can't see it, but know it has to be there for us to mentally process info. Well, once we acknowledge that, why would we ever turn around and change that stance?

I'd like to also point out that no one has disproved God's existence. So why think otherwise when we have a relationship with Him and it's so evident?

 

[bsd31]

Before I became a Christian I would always say something to the effect of -

Nothing could ever make me believe in your murderous, vile, filthy, "god".

Or

Even if I did believe in a so-called "god" I'd never worship that disgusting piece of garbage you call "god". I'd never bow down to a grotesque thing like that monstrosity in your bible

But now I'm a Christian and I see how silly it is to say that something would never, ever change your mind one way or another.

God knows we can be swayed away from the faith. That's why we are warned about it in the scriptures.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Before I became a Christian I would always say something to the effect of -

Nothing could ever make me believe in your murderous, vile, filthy, "god".

Or

Even if I did believe in a so-called "god" I'd never worship that disgusting piece of garbage you call "god". I'd never bow down to a grotesque thing like that monstrosity in your bible

I am not advocated this stance either. Both are bad. Saying you'll never change your beliefs in anything is foolish and close-minded. I am open to new experiences that will alter my philosophy on life, my views on God and often I hope and pray that God would come into my life in a more evident way; in a way that would help me to better understand this bizarre world we are living in and this bizarre mind I am trapped in. I tried being a Christian for two years; I experienced it, I loved it! It was fun and I learned a lot and I grew a lot but, in the end it did not satisfy my questioning and skepticism, my scientific way of thinking and my thirst for understanding. Too often I would ask questions or criticize and a Christian would say, "You just don't understand, leave it up to God, it is not for us to understand." I could not accept this ideology; I crave understanding and knowledge, to push that craving aside was like locking me in a box of ignorance.

But now I'm a Christian and I see how silly it is to say that something would never, ever change your mind one way or another.

Would you still say that something could sway your ways today? You know that at one time you were an atheist and now you are a Christian, do you acknowledge that one day you could be a Muslim, a Buddhist, an agnostic, an atheist again? If not, why not?

God knows we can be swayed away from the faith. That's why we are warned about it in the scriptures.

You only say this because you think Christianity is right. In your atheist days you would have been on the other side of the fence saying that the believers are the ones that *should* be swayed away from the faith, because being swayed from their faith is bringing them closer to the truth.

 

[bsd31]

I am not advocated this stance either. Both are bad. Saying you'll never change your beliefs in anything is foolish and close-minded. I am open to new experiences that will alter my philosophy on life, my views on God and often I hope and pray that God would come into my life in a more evident way; in a way that would help me to better understand this bizarre world we are living in and this bizarre mind I am trapped in. I tried being a Christian for two years; I experienced it, I loved it! It was fun and I learned a lot and I grew a lot but, in the end it did not satisfy my questioning and skepticism, my scientific way of thinking and my thirst for understanding. Too often I would ask questions or criticize and a Christian would say, "You just don't understand, leave it up to God, it is not for us to understand." I could not accept this ideology; I crave understanding and knowledge, to push that craving aside was like locking me in a box of ignorance.

There's definitely an element of faith in living the Christian life. There are just some things that are never going to be answered using even the greatest of human minds. And that bothers some people. It bothers some that their intellect is really not up to the task of honestly answering some of the questions that come up. Worse yet is the fact that all the greatest thinkers aren't going to come up with the answers.

Would you still say that something could sway your ways today? You know that at one time you were an atheist and now you are a Christian, do you acknowledge that one day you could be a Muslim, a Buddhist, an agnostic, an atheist again? If not, why not?

Certainly. Having explored Christianity for two years I'm sure you know how often the scripture warns us of allowing our hearts and minds to be polluted with other beliefs. Those warnings are there because God, being God and all, knows that it doesn't take much for us to get off track. That's why I keep myself immersed in the word of God, in prayer, in fellowship with other Christians. Because looking to other answers is all too easy, especially if the answers I get from other places are more pleasing to me than the ones I get from Christianity.

You only say this because you think Christianity is right. In your atheist days you would have been on the other side of the fence saying that the believers are the ones that *should* be swayed away from the faith, because being swayed from their faith is bringing them closer to the truth.

You kind of lost me here... I only say that God warns us in scriptures that we can be swayed from the faith because I think Christianity is right? I say it because it is written throughout scriptures, both old and new testament, that we need to be on guard.

And you are dead wrong that I would have said Christians should be swayed to the atheistic side while I was an atheist. Part of being "open minded" is that you don't believe it to be your mission to convert everyone else to your way of thinking. As an atheist (or satanist, or pagan, or devil worshiper, or any of the rest of it) I never believed that I had a monopoly on the truth. I just didn't believe in a deity. It had nothing to do with "Oh I'm so much more intellectually superior to you. I sure hope one day your tiny little mind will understand how much truth there is in what I believe.", or anything even remotely similar.

 

[FaithPrevails]

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[leftrightleftrightleft]

There's definitely an element of faith in living the Christian life. There are just some things that are never going to be answered using even the greatest of human minds. And that bothers some people. It bothers some that their intellect is really not up to the task of honestly answering some of the questions that come up. Worse yet is the fact that all the greatest thinkers aren't going to come up with the answers.

The fact that there are inherent unknowns doesn't bother me. What bothers me is refusing to try to better understand or answer the unknowns. Saying, "Oh you'll just never understand" is a total cop-out. Even though I will die with many unknowns, I will be much more satisfied in trying to seek the answers out earnestly rather than sitting back and ignoring the potential answers hidden around the corner.

Taking the "inevitable-unknown-so-don't-try-to-understand" philosophy to its ridiculous logical conclusion means that I should just stop trying understand anything that perplexes me. If I go into my bank account and find that it has been emptied and I don't know why, I should just say, "Well, I can never figure it out, so why try? I guess it just disappeared." I would rather investigate it and try and figure out how this unknown (why my bank account is empty). Even if I never figure out how my bank account was emptied, I will be much more satisfied in trying to figure out the puzzle then just sitting back and accepting my sudden poverty.

Certainly. Having explored Christianity for two years I'm sure you know how often the scripture warns us of allowing our hearts and minds to be polluted with other beliefs. Those warnings are there because God, being God and all, knows that it doesn't take much for us to get off track. That's why I keep myself immersed in the word of God, in prayer, in fellowship with other Christians. Because looking to other answers is all too easy, especially if the answers I get from other places are more pleasing to me than the ones I get from Christianity.

If the answers you get from other places make more sense, then why do you choose willingly to follow Christianity? Also, its easy to translate "keep myself immersed in" into "keep myself in my safe bubble". I find so many Christians don't go READ the works of the great philosophers, the works of other spiritual masters because they are "afraid" it will "pollute their mind". I call this ignorance.

You kind of lost me here... I only say that God warns us in scriptures that we can be swayed from the faith because I think Christianity is right? I say it because it is written throughout scriptures, both old and new testament, that we need to be on guard.

And you are dead wrong that I would have said Christians should be swayed to the atheistic side while I was an atheist. Part of being "open minded" is that you don't believe it to be your mission to convert everyone else to your way of thinking. As an atheist (or satanist, or pagan, or devil worshiper, or any of the rest of it) I never believed that I had a monopoly on the truth. I just didn't believe in a deity. It had nothing to do with "Oh I'm so much more intellectually superior to you. I sure hope one day your tiny little mind will understand how much truth there is in what I believe.", or anything even remotely similar.

Sorry for making assumptions about how you would've acted. I stereotyped atheists and Christians in my blurb. Do you still believe you don't have a monopoly on the truth? Where else do you receive revelatory or spiritual truth other than the Bible?