Not sure which church to attend

[South Bound]

For the record, have added South Bound to my ignore list. I do not appreciate being poked and prodded and made to feel like I am less worthy than he or others.

I never said anything at all about you being "less worthy". If that's really what you got out of my posts, then that's your own poor self esteem, not anything I said. I don't even know what you think I said you're "less worthy" of.

All I said was that (a) your implication that we don't believe everyone is made in the image of God is untrue, (b) that the UMC might be a good fit for you because they share your view of homosexuality, and (c) that the Unitarians might be a good fit for you because they share your view of the unregenerate.

That's all. Not one word about you being unworthy of whatever it is you think you're unworthy of.

So that's it. If you're going to throw a temper tantrum every time somebody tries to talk to you, that's not really a game I'm interested in playing.

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[ElectricBlueBauble]

I never said anything at all about you being "less worthy". If that's really what you got out of my posts, then that's your own poor self esteem, not anything I said. I don't even know what you think I said you're "less worthy" of.

All I said was that (a) your implication that we don't believe everyone is made in the image of God is untrue, (b) that the UMC might be a good fit for you because they share your view of homosexuality, and (c) that the Unitarians might be a good fit for you because they share your view of the unregenerate.

That's all. Not one word about you being unworthy of whatever it is you think you're unworthy of.

So that's it. If you're going to throw a temper tantrum every time somebody tries to talk to you, that's not really a game I'm interested in playing.

Welcome to my ignore list.

South Bound, there you go assuming again. I never said you called me unworthy. Never. I said "I do not appreciate being poked and prodded and made to feel like I am less worthy than he or others."

Please do not assume.

I am not throwing a temper tantrum, far from it. I am being respectful. I am not shouting, not calling you names, not being obstinate, and not making wild accusations.

I came here and posted a thread asking for help. Several people have genuinely tried to help me, and I fully appreciate it. But what you have done is misread my words intentionally and thrown them around to make me look like a false Christian.

You wrote:

If you're looking for a church that will affirm the sin of homosexuality and the redefinition of God's ordained institution of marriage, how about the United Methodists?

I understand your beliefs regarding homosexuality being sin, and I can accept that is your belief, and honestly, right now I am unsure how I feel about it. I am trying to find my way, trying to find the truth, the way, the light.

Perhaps I am wrong about homosexuality. But from what I understand of the New Covenant I was sure that God absolved the sin of homosexuality because Jesus died for our sins. I watched 2 sermons earlier today and it got me thinking of what it is I really believe, and if it is True or not.

You wrote:

No problem. Incidentally, you said you didn't like Southern Baptists because you believe God made everyone in His image. Are you seriously implying that we don't believe God made everyone in His image?

As I have said before, I do not dislike Southern Baptists. God did make everyone in his image, which includes people with birth defects, brain anomalies, physical disabilities, mental illnesses, etc. Even homosexuality (in my belief) is a natural part of the person. I can't get rid of my anxiety disorder or my food allergies, neither can a homosexual person get rid of their sexual feelings toward those of the same sex. It's built-in to their brain, to how they are.

And no I never implied or said or even believe that SB's do not believe God made everyone in His image. I know you (all) do.

You wrote:

If you believe the unregenerate are God's children, then maybe you might try the Unitarian Universalists.

All humans are God's children (please prove me wrong by providing scripture references) because he created Adam and Eve, from which we all came.

Even athiests, satanists (is that the correct word?), etc are all God's children, yet they haven't come to Him and accepted Him as their Father.

If a woman gets pregnant by her boyfriend, he leaves her and never comes back, the father of the baby is still that on particular man no matter if he was there or not while the baby was growing up.

I hope we can become civil with each other and continue on with our discussion.

Right now I am hesitant on what I believe regarding homosexuality. I hate being uncertain about things. I feel lost, and I know God will direct me to the answers, but when that will be I may never know.

I am 30 years old, have grown up being taught that homosexuality is okay, that is is part of the "norm" of being human. We have been taught to accept things which we cannot understand ourselves. I grew up during a time period that was a transition from fundamentalist schooling (Reading, Writing, Arithmetic) to New Age-style learning, which has since transformed into communistic schooling.

You can probably see now why I am confused, and asking for help. I try to start conversations with my parents about the Bible, but oftentimes I get more confused by speaking with them. I am praying for guidance, trying to find my way, and I came here hoping to find fellowship.

South Bound, I am sorry you feel I am being childish and throwing a temper tantrum. I can assure you I am not.

Yes, I do have low self esteem, I always have due to my circumstances in life. My character is not one in which I am always proud, strong, determined. It is actually one which seems weak and fragile. I hope to overcome those flaws in myself. I don't know how to do so. So please, if you read this, South Bound, accept my apology and if you still want to, please continue reaching out to me.

Thank you for reading this. God bless you, all.

 

[South Bound]

All humans are God's children (please prove me wrong by providing scripture references) because he created Adam and Eve, from which we all came.

That doesn't make us children of God. That just makes Adam the federal head of the unregenerate.

Ephesians 2:1-3, Romans 9:8, James 4:4, 1 John 3:8, John 8:42, 8:44, and 1 John 3:10 all say that the unregenerate are not children of God.

Galatians 4:5-6, Ephesians 1:5, Romans 8:14-17, and Galatians 3:26 all say that we are not, by nature, children of God, but are only adopted by God as His children when we are saved.

I was always under the impression that there was no predestination. Not as far as choosing to believe in and worship God. I am surprised to read that.

Why would that surprise you? It's Christianity 101.

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." - Romans 8:29

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed." - Acts 13:48

"Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love" - Ephesians 1:4

"But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth." - 2 Thessalonians 2:13

So, if not everyone can choose for themselves whether or not to believe, why must we go out into the world and preach the Gospel?

Because Jesus said to.

If people don't really have a choice then how will our preaching to others bring them into the Church?

How will they be saved if they don't hear the Gospel?

 

[ElectricBlueBauble]

Yes, we came from Adam, which makes us children of Adam.

Ephesians 2:1-3, Romans 9:8, James 4:4, 1 John 3:8, John 8:42, 8:44, and 1 John 3:10 all say that the unregenerate are not children of God.

Galatians 4:5-6, Ephesians 1:5, Romans 8:14-17, and Galatians 3:26 all say that we are not, by nature, children of God, but are only adopted by God as His children when we are saved.

But I'm sure you know better.

Thank you, South Bound for the scriptural references. I appreciate it. I was wrong. But I am a newbie as they say, so I'm bound to be wrong on many occasions. I admit it.

Thank you, again, for the snarky comment "But I'm sure you know better."

I see here in Ephesians 1:5 (NASB) it says: "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved."

I was always under the impression that there was no predestination. Not as far as choosing to believe in and worship God. I am surprised to read that.

So, if not everyone can choose for themselves whether or not to believe, why must we go out into the world and preach the Gospel? If people don't really have a choice then how will our preaching to others bring them into the Church? I'm confused.

 

[ElectricBlueBauble]

Okay, this answers my question:
http ://www .gotquestions. org/predestination.html

Some are chosen beforehand to believe, others can still choose to believe and He won't reject them.

Is it possible that we will know in this lifetime if we were chosen or if we chose?

 

[ElectricBlueBauble]

Is the Evangelical Covenant Church considered moderate or liberal? I really like LifeChurch-dot-tv and see they are a member of the ECC and have read through what I can find on their site covchurch dot org and don't see anything that sticks out to me as a red flag.

They have a Who We Are statement which is at covchurch dot org/who-we-are and it all seems to fit with how my beliefs are at the present time.

It lists:

The Evangelical Covenant Church is:

• Evangelical, but not exclusive
• Biblical, but not doctrinaire
• Traditional, but not rigid
• Congregational, but not independent

and at covchurch dot org/who-we-are/beliefs sounds right to me.


If anyone can give me any info on what the following means, that would be great.

We are a Reformation church, a part of the Church universal, and an evangelical church. In that heritage, we share certain central beliefs, which draw us together in faith and fellowship and make possible a freedom among us on more widely ranging issues.

 

[Albion]

Is the Evangelical Covenant Church considered moderate or liberal? I really like LifeChurch-dot-tv and see they are a member of the ECC and have read through what I can find on their site covchurch dot org and don't see anything that sticks out to me as a red flag.

They have a Who We Are statement which is at covchurch dot org/who-we-are and it all seems to fit with how my beliefs are at the present time.

It lists:
and at covchurch dot org/who-we-are/beliefs sounds right to me.


If anyone can give me any info on what the following means, that would be great.

The ECC is broadly evangelical and moderately liberal, meaning that it stands on basic Protestant beliefs but doesn't "over define" them while promoting missionary and charitable work. Anyone who's been thinking of traditional Quakerism but would prefer the more standard church organization and worship life might do well to look into the ECC if there's a congregation nearby.