Not being nice as Christians - Different views on Mary

[xTx]

Monica, AvalonXQ, Robinsegg, Shinbits, Bushido216, ChildofGod1, Celticflower and drich0150 & [one more kind soul],

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Most importantly it is Jesus who is God.

What is right is Jesus must always be the focus of worship.

Regarding the following prayer - please see Monica's Catholic explaination on page 2. Thank you.

Act of Oblation to the Blessed Virgin Mary
My Queen! my Mother!
I give thee all myself, and,
to show my devotion to thee,
I consecrate to thee my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart, my entire self.
Wherefore, O loving Mother,
as I am thine own,
keep me, defend me,
as thy property and possession.

Amen.

Monica also mentioned that the Catholics believe that Mary was born without sin. Logically, it does make sense don't you think so? I would shudder at the thought that Jesus who is God was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born from a woman who was a 'sinner'.

How can God, Jesus, be born of someone who is a sinner?


Cheers, xTx

 

[AvalonXQ]

Luke 11:27-28
And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

Mark 3:31-35
Then His brothers and His mother came, and standing outside they sent to Him, calling Him. And a multitude was sitting around Him; and they said to Him, “Look, Your mother and Your brothers are outside seeking You.”
But He answered them, saying, “Who is My mother, or My brothers?” And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.”

I think it's pretty clear that Mary was a child of God, and a woman to be looked to for a positive example like other Biblical men and women of faith. But I don't think there's good Scriptural support for giving her any elevated esteem or position. She's the same as all the other saints; I think many Christians have a real issue with her being spoken of as something more.

 

[Robinsegg]

Mary was a woman loved by God, saved by Jesus and as much a Christian as any Christian I know.

She's also now dead (Baptists believe the dead don't pay attention to what happens here), fully human (no divinity), and has no more direct line to God than do I.

I don't *know* Mary, so to say I "like her" or "don't like her" seems kinda silly to me. If the story of Mary brought you to know Jesus, that's great! We should all be pointing others toward Him, as well as rejoicing with any who find Him!

Rachel

 

[shinbits]

though Protestants have a beef with the god-like status Catholics have put Mary on, that's not all. it's the false teachings associated with her, like Mary was born sinless, and has never sinned since birth, even though she's a human descended from Adam. Clearly, the Bible teaches that all people descended from Adam sinned. The Catholic church goes against the Bible for the sake of Mary worship.

So the worshipping of Mary in addition to false teaching is what Protestants have a beef with, not "liking" Mary.

 

[Bushido216]

though Protestants have a beef with the god-like status Catholics have put Mary on, that's not all. it's the false teachings associated with her, like Mary was born sinless, and has never sinned since birth, even though she's a human descended from Adam. Clearly, the Bible teaches that all people descended from Adam sinned. The Catholic church goes against the Bible for the sake of Mary worship.

So the worshipping of Mary in addition to false teaching is what Protestants have a beef with, not "liking" Mary.

You don't understand Catholic theology very well, or elsewise you wouldn't have posted what you did.

Also, wrong forum. GA is that way -->

 

[shinbits]

You don't understand Catholic theology very well, or elsewise you wouldn't have posted what you did.

Also, wrong forum. GA is that way -->

I understand Catholic theology very well, which is why Catholics can't argue against what I say.

 

[student ad x]

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[drich0150]

Worshiping Mary is worship that we should focus on God. Some even suggest some of the more fanatical marry worshipers deify her. attributing healing and good fortunes if one was only to bow down and pray to her. I'm not saying all who focus on Mary do this, but those who do are in fact worshiping another God. No man or woman is worthy of this kind of worship. Even the angels correct those who kneel before them. God is the only one worthy of this honor. We are not to pray to any other gods or saints.

They like us will rot in the ground until God calls for them to be resurrected. They Do Not have the power of resurrection. At least not with out God. Because in truth we are all saints.

 

[Celticflower]

I give Mary the honor due her as I do any of the other Biblical characters who answered God's call. I don't credit her with anything more than is in the Bible. I do not pray to her. I do not worship her. She was just another human who was an important part of God's plan, but not the most important part.

 

[xTx]

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Cool, student ad x. Thanks [Hey guys, keep the ideas coming]Thank you for posting too. Cheers, xTx

 

[childofGod1]

When Catholics start saying "Why do you hate Mary?" it reminds me of the day Nancy Pelosi called the tea party "nazis". It's a diversionary tactic, used to stop real discussion and put the other side on the defensive, trying to disprove ridiculous charges. I have yet to meet a single Christian who hates Mary.

I see no scriptural basis for the level of Mary veneration the Catholic church promotes, such as the prayer below, from Catholic.org.





Act of Oblation to the Blessed Virgin Mary

My Queen! my Mother!
I give thee all myself, and,
to show my devotion to thee,
I consecrate to thee my eyes,
my ears, my mouth, my heart, my entire self.
Wherefore, O loving Mother,
as I am thine own,
keep me, defend me,
as thy property and possession.

Amen.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Catholics don't worship Mary I don't think that prayer is worship, because I read a book about Consecration prayers to Mary, and basically the whole purpose of them is to belong more to Jesus. We come to Mary in order to come closer to Him. If we give her ourselves, that is only to belong more to Him. It's like we give ourselves to His Mother, and she gives us to Jesus.... just as if we were giving a present to the King, we can give it to the Queen first so she can make it better and present it to him.

A lot of what people have trouble with about Mary comes from misunderstanding of the Catholic teaching about her, imho.

Btw the "false teachings" that were mentioned - that Mary didn't sin, etc, - that was believed since the early Church. The Orthodox (the other ancient church) also believe that she didn't sin. This doesn't contradict Scripture because we believe she was also saved by Christ, but this happened at her conception.... it was still by His merits, only at a different time than for us.

Here is a video describing Mary in Scripture and showing how Catholic doctrines about her are all in the Bible:
YouTube - Clarification about Sacred Scripture and Mary

just wanted to clarify some things
God bless

 

[xTx]

Catholics don't worship Mary I don't think that prayer is worship, because I read a book about Consecration prayers to Mary, and basically the whole purpose of them is to belong more to Jesus. We come to Mary in order to come closer to Him. If we give her ourselves, that is only to belong more to Him. It's like we give ourselves to His Mother, and she gives us to Jesus.... just as if we were giving a present to the King, we can give it to the Queen first so she can make it better and present it to him.

A lot of what people have trouble with about Mary comes from misunderstanding of the Catholic teaching about her, imho.

Btw the "false teachings" that were mentioned - that Mary didn't sin, etc, - that was believed since the early Church. The Orthodox (the other ancient church) also believe that she didn't sin. This doesn't contradict Scripture because we believe she was also saved by Christ, but this happened at her conception.... it was still by His merits, only at a different time than for us.

Here is a video describing Mary in Scripture and showing how Catholic doctrines about her are all in the Bible:
YouTube - Clarification about Sacred Scripture and Mary

just wanted to clarify some things
God bless

Thanks Monica. And, thanks again to everybody who has contributed their thoughts on this subject.

I respect everybody's thoughts on Mary. I have been away to learn also from the Catholics point of view.

My thoughts are, after reading what everybody has to say and learning on my own.

(1) Catholics do not pray to Mary. They ask Mary to intercede for them. It is like asking for a "Prayer Request" from the "Prayer Request" thread in Christian Forum.

(2) I have come to my own conclusion that Mary can only be sinless in order to have been able to be the mother of Jesus. No sin can come near God. Sinners burn before God. That is why sinners cannot go to heaven where God is. Jesus had to have a human form even though He is God.

Jesus is sinless and He got His human form from Mary. Therefore, Jesus who is God is both wholly God and wholly human being at the same time.

When the Holy Spirit covered Mary and made her pregnant with Jesus. Jesus was in the form of God. That is why, xTx has concluded that Mary is sinless. For God to come that close, she had to be sinless.

Jesus was born in human form and is God. Both nature, human and God in one person; Jesus. This way, Jesus was able to move about the earth, teaching sinners, eating with them. Without burning them up.

My apologies if my theory offends anyone. I have no intention of hurting anyone's feelings. This is what I think.

And, I have decided to get my Christian instruction from the Roman Catholic Church.

Thank you for all your help. Peace be with you. God bless. My apologies.

P.S. The above, what xTx said is not a teaching of the Catholic church. It is how xTx reason out things. If it is wrong to you, my apologies. But, like I said earlier, I respect everybody's views on Mary and so should you.

Love,
xTx

 

[MoNiCa4316]

xTx, in fact what you wrote is the teaching of the Catholic Church! We ask Mary to pray for us to God, and we believe she's sinless so that Christ would not be dishonoured by receiving His human nature from a sinner. We also believe she WAS saved by Christ's merits, and this happened at her conception. On her own, she would not have been holy, she is human.. but God filled her with His grace to such an extent that she loved Him more than anyone else in creation, and was able to be His Mother. We call Mary the "Mother of God" because we believe Christ's human and divine natures can't be separated... Mary didn't create Christ's divinity, but she bore Him in her womb as He is - fully God, fully Man.

 

[childofGod1]

Mary didn't have to be sinless. Christ is the One who washes away our sins, don't you think He could wash away His mother's sins? Don't limit what god can do. When Jesus touched sinners, lepers, tax collectors, the blind, the crippled, and the children, wouldn't they have burned to ashes if Christ were unable to touch sinners?

 

[vl32]

I think the virgin Mary is a good role model for young Christian women. I have been thinking about Mary lately and how magnificent and blessed she was to be chosen to be the Mother of God incarnate.

I can understand some of the desire of Catholics and Orthodox to revere her as she was the mother of God!

I see no need for quarrels/debates regarding Mary, as she is blessed among ALL women -- ever.

 

[xTx]

xTx, in fact what you wrote is the teaching of the Catholic Church! We ask Mary to pray for us to God, and we believe she's sinless so that Christ would not be dishonoured by receiving His human nature from a sinner. We also believe she WAS saved by Christ's merits, and this happened at her conception. On her own, she would not have been holy, she is human.. but God filled her with His grace to such an extent that she loved Him more than anyone else in creation, and was able to be His Mother. We call Mary the "Mother of God" because we believe Christ's human and divine natures can't be separated... Mary didn't create Christ's divinity, but she bore Him in her womb as He is - fully God, fully Man.

childofGod1 Mary didn't have to be sinless. Christ is the One who washes away our sins, don't you think He could wash away His mother's sins? Don't limit what god can do. When Jesus touched sinners, lepers, tax collectors, the blind, the crippled, and the children, wouldn't they have burned to ashes if Christ were unable to touch sinners?

vl32 I think the virgin Mary is a good role model for young Christian women. I have been thinking about Mary lately and how magnificent and blessed she was to be chosen to be the Mother of God incarnate.

I can understand some of the desire of Catholics and Orthodox to revere her as she was the mother of God!

I see no need for quarrels/debates regarding Mary, as she is blessed among ALL women -- ever.

Thanks Monica, childofGod1 & vl32

I need to think about this. But, I did logically come to the following:

'Jesus was born in human form and is God. Both nature, human and God in one person; Jesus. This way, Jesus was able to move about the earth, teaching sinners, eating with them. Without burning them up.'

I am not sure, what I said about the fact that Jesus who is God became human so that He can move about the earth teaching sinners without burning them up is correct or not. I need to go check my facts.

Regarding what everybody said so far, I need to think about it.

Thanks again to Monica, childofGod1 & vl32. May God bless all of you.

Cheers, xTx

 

[childofGod1]

childofGod1 Mary didn't have to be sinless. Christ is the One who washes away our sins, don't you think He could wash away His mother's sins? Don't limit what god can do. When Jesus touched sinners, lepers, tax collectors, the blind, the crippled, and the children, wouldn't they have burned to ashes if Christ were unable to touch sinners?

vl32 I think the virgin Mary is a good role model for young Christian women. I have been thinking about Mary lately and how magnificent and blessed she was to be chosen to be the Mother of God incarnate.

I can understand some of the desire of Catholics and Orthodox to revere her as she was the mother of God!

I see no need for quarrels/debates regarding Mary, as she is blessed among ALL women -- ever.

Thanks Monica, childofGod1 & vl32

I need to think about this. But, I did logically come to the following:

'Jesus was born in human form and is God. Both nature, human and God in one person; Jesus. This way, Jesus was able to move about the earth, teaching sinners, eating with them. Without burning them up.'

I am not sure, what I said about the fact that Jesus who is God became human so that He can move about the earth teaching sinners without burning them up is correct or not. I need to go check my facts.

Regarding what everybody said so far, I need to think about it.

Thanks again to Monica, childofGod1 & vl32. May God bless all of you.

Cheers, xTx

Christ came to save us from sin. He became human so that He could be one of us. We are assured that no matter how difficult it is for us to resist sin, Christ suffered the same temptations and overcame them. We know that He understands exactly what we are going through, because He did it Himself. None of us can ever use the excuse, "You don't know what it's like to be a mere human", He does know. God reached out to us, all the way, to save us because He loves us. I hope this helps.

 

[xTx]

Christ came to save us from sin. He became human so that He could be one of us. We are assured that no matter how difficult it is for us to resist sin, Christ suffered the same temptations and overcame them. We know that He understands exactly what we are going through, because He did it Himself. None of us can ever use the excuse, "You don't know what it's like to be a mere human", He does know. God reached out to us, all the way, to save us because He loves us. I hope this helps.

Yes, childofGod1, this is beautiful and it makes me speechless when thinking of God. Christians are the luckiest people in the world. Actually the human race is very lucky to have such a forgiving God who reaches out to mere mortals. Unfortunately, there some human beings who deny that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead. I am glad, that a Catholic reached out to me and taught me the Hail Mary and through the prayers, I learned to know and love Jesus.

It is really sweet of you childofGod1 coming back to this thread to try to help me. I really am glad you did. Thanks.

Having a bit of confusion regarding Mary at the moment.

Cheers, xTx

 

[xTx]

Think I will just leave the Mary topic in a corner for now. I get a headache when thinking about all the different views from different churches.

What is most important is that Jesus loves us all.

God bless.

xTx