not all Christians hate gays, so why are we not speaking up?

[RDKirk]

Just to put your straw man to bed: most Christians do not hate gays. But we do draw the line at gay marriage, gay pastors, and exposing our children to gay cultural influences.

We also draw the line at heterosexual polygamy, adulterous pastors, and hypersexualizing our children to heterosexual cultural influences.

So, you say that gays want get married just because we don't like gay marriage? What about the "I love who I love" stuff? Is this all just words that they use to beat up Christians, as you have done by starting this thread with talk of "hate"? A person does not open with that to start a dialogue. They start with words like that to stop dialogue.

Here's how an honest dialogue works: you open by stating your position and not by defining the other side's position. Let them define their own position.

I basically agree with your post, but I don't think Christians do draw a bright enough line between ourselves and other sins. We are way too entangled with the world in all the other ways, despite any lip service to the contrary.

 

[ToBeLoved]

firstly, I know most of us here agree homosexual lifestyle is a sin, but it is one of the sins. not the sin.

yet I see many mainstream Christians ( my impression at least), their hatred towards gays are personal

you can see this by the fact they want to 'force' gays to change their ways instead of the usual route with the sinners, and that is share gospels with them and love them, not "treat them with love' but full of hatred for them, which doesn't take a genius to figure that one out?

I am just watching this video, and the preacher hit the hammer on the nail but saying " don't bother sharing gospel with them if you are not going to act like Christ"

but more importantly, there are many of us who don't agree with those Christians such as Franklin Graham, who seem to be shouting the loudest in the media, yet we say nothing to contradict them, and let them know not all Christians are like that?

First let me say I feel for homosexual Christians and thank God that is not my struggle personally.

My theory is that most Christians will not tolerate sin that is repetitive. Since sexual sin like that is a lifestyle meaning they probably never will become unattracted to the people they are attracted to, it is most often repeated throughout their life and not turned from

 

[Ygrene Imref]

Unfortunately, we all tend to consider others sins more egregious than our own. An option that God simply doesn't give to us, BTW. But, it is the unapologetic nature of sexual sin by some that encourages that reaction. To struggle with sin is one thing, to take "pride" in one's sin is something else entirely.

Our reaction to this "sin" is what causes the unapologetic behavior.

I despise the comparisons of homosexuality to things like racism against blacks, but it is similar in the case that it is the same story of one group who shows clear disdain for another - to the point it threatens survival. The group that is found the derision will fight against everything that tries to oppress them to just get the chance to survive. It doesn't matter that today it is homosexuality. People are killing people they suspect are homosexual because of the bigotry - and some of these who don't necessarily mind seeing a homosexual "punished," or harmed are people who call themselves Christians.

It may come down to the mistake that many of us have that we think we are supposed to change someone spiritually. That is not our jobs; at most, our job is to plant a seed. We have our own souls to worry about, and using the time to point out the "abomination" in someone else means you dont even have time to clean up your own mess.

I do not agree with homosexuality, and I know of some very strong believers that have overcome homosexuality in practice and in lust. No conversion - just faith in Christ. It can happen. But, no person who has homosexual attractions will attempt to see error in their actions of the moral compass looks like a judgmental hypocrite.


Christ didn't revile the alleged adultress/harlot: He didn't even rebuke her.

 

[Yoona86]

First let me say I feel for homosexual Christians and thank God that is not my struggle personally.

My theory is that most Christians will not tolerate sin that is repetitive. Since sexual sin like that is a lifestyle meaning they probably never will become unattracted to the people they are attracted to, it is most often repeated throughout their life and not turned from

since when is there an atheist that do not engage in sins that are repetitive? whether is lying, greed, envy so on and so forth?

 

[WannaWitness]

While I believe the homosexual lifestyle is wrong, I am strictly against hating and bullying such individuals. I mean, what kind of witness is that? I do believe they need the Gospel, but presented in a loving, nonjudgmental way with our own imperfections in mind. Even those of us who are Christians are still going to struggle in some form of sin, so I am not about to sit in judgment over someone else who struggles in ways that differ from my own. I am a Christian, but believe me, I have my own weaknesses so I am not about to point fingers. I deal with a lot of envy, and although I know I shouldn't compare myself with others and be thankful for what I have, I always fall into that trap and ponder on why my situation seems as though it is "not as good" as I feel it should be in comparison with other people in my circles. Then, I find myself pleading for the Lord's forgiveness so I can move on, and trust that He is helping me work this out, along with other things I have problems with.

I know some here are going to disagree, but all sin is alike in the eyes of God in that they reap the same consequences. But I know it is something that can be overcome, as I know a Christian lady who used to be gay, but changed her heart for Christ a long time ago and no longer lives that kind of life. However, I know there are still Christians who judge her on her past, and that is just wrong. There isn't one of us here who will be totally perfect until He calls us to our eternal home.

Here are some favorite songs of mine that come to mind in light of this thread.

I wish not to debate here; I am merely adding my two cents in the hopes to be helpful.

Best to you all!

 

[ToBeLoved]

since when is there an atheist that do not engage in sins that are repetitive? whether is lying, greed, envy so on and so forth?

I was referrring to a Christian who was also homosexual.

I have no reason to single out homosexuality if we are not talking about Christians.

Non Christians don't care if they sin.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

This is difficult for me as I don't understand why sexuality is the problem. Seems to me it's more about the culture, how people live than with who they have relations. If values give purpose to principles, why is the principle idolized for it's sake?

For example the principle of men and women getting married. Is heterosexuality the purpose? Or is monogamy the purpose? If regardless of sexuality, they waited to commit themselves to another for life and remain faithful long as they live; what's the difference?

So the values would be monogamy, patience, trust, commitment and all else I can't think off the top of my head; summed up it would be love, wouldn't it?

These are questions I've been having and don't understand, is Christianity about a very specific life for certain people or is it a general life for certain people. Sadly as I've thought more about it, it seems as if it's less about values and principles than it is superficiality and discrimination.

But that comes back the old debate of interpretation and practice; literal or contextual. So the questions aren't easy to answer for me, probably not for others too.

 

[JackRT]

Non Christians don't care if they sin.

Completely, absolutely untrue.

 

[Aldebaran]

Completely, absolutely untrue.

If they cared about sin, they would care even more about salvation. Since non believers don't even believe in God, they care about neither.

 

[JackRT]

If they cared about sin, they would care even more about salvation. Since non believers don't even believe in God, they care about neither.

What you call non-believers seems to include many faiths that believe in God and accept a concept of sin. In my experience many atheists have a very high moral standard sometimes even higher than some Christians. In fact, the most "Christlike" person that I have ever personally met is a Hindu.

 

[Aldebaran]

What you call non-believers seems to include many faiths that believe in God and accept a concept of sin. In my experience many atheists have a very high moral standard sometimes even higher than some Christians. In fact, the most "Christlike" person that I have ever personally met is a Hindu.

A moral standard is subject to the person's own value system. It doesn't necessarily match God's definition of what sin is or isn't. A sin is specifically defined as "missing the mark" of the requirements God has for us, which only Christ can fulfill. A person who is a non-believer in Christ feels no need to meet God's requirements.

 

[JackRT]

A person who is a non-believer in Christ feels no need to meet God's requirements.

I have met Jews, Muslims, Hindus and others who strive very hard to meet God's requirements. Perhaps your understanding of God is far too narrow?

 

[Aldebaran]

I have met Jews, Muslims, Hindus and others who strive very hard to meet God's requirements. Perhaps your understanding of God is far too narrow?

If it is the straight and narrow gate Jesus told us we must enter by that you're referring to, then you are correct.