not all Christians hate gays, so why are we not speaking up?

[joshuanazar]

Quoted with permission: The Evidence Bible

Rather than offend homosexuals by directly confronting the issue of their sinful lifestyle, modern evangelism often tries to soften the approach by saying that "God hates the sin, but loves the sinner." This isn’t a new concept.

Charles Finney stated, "God is not angry merely against the sin abstracted from the sinner, but against the sinner himself. Some persons have labored hard to set up this ridiculous and absurd abstraction, and would fain make it appear that God is angry at sin, yet not at the sinner. He hates the theft, but loves the thief. He abhors adultery, but is pleased with the adulterer. Now this is supreme nonsense. The sin has no moral character apart from the sinner. The act is nothing apart from the actor. The very thing that God hates and disapproves is not the mere event—the thing done in distinction from the doer; but it is the doer himself. It grieves and displeases Him that a rational moral agent, under His government, should array himself against his own God and Father, against all that is right and just in the universe. This is the thing that offends God. The sinner himself is the direct and the only object of his anger."

So the Bible shows. God is angry with the wicked [Psalm 7:11], not with the abstract sin. If the wicked turn not, God will whet His sword—He has bent His bow and made it ready—not to shoot at the sin, but the sinner—the wicked man who has done the abominable thing. This is the only doctrine of either the Bible or of common sense on this subject" (The Guilt of Sin).

The biblical way to witness to a homosexual is not to argue with him about his lifestyle but to use the Law to bring the knowledge of sin. This will show him that he is guilty of breaking God’s holy Law, and he is damned not because of, but despite his sexual preference. The Law was made for homosexuals, as well as other lawbreakers.

Whoever wrote this does not know what grace is.

 

[joshuanazar]

Perpetrated by Satan? I would agree.


Myth? I am not sold on that, to be honest.

I have seen churches run gay members out merely because they are gay. Seen "Christians" beat, verbally abuse, and bully gay individuals. Heard them claim all gays and queers should be, and I quote, "beat back into the closet". That doesn't strike me as "love the sinner, hate the sin" in the least. It strikes me as hating the sinner. There is a line there between ministering to the sinner while keeping to Scripture on what is sin and hating them for the sin. I find it crossed often, and this does have very negative impacts - for both sides of the issue.

It puts a wedge between gays and the Church. And, sadder still, it can often put a wedge between them and God. It shouldn't, no. But it can.

While it may not actually be a majority of Christians that take this attitude so far -and I agree, it certainly isn't a majority- it is a VOCAL minority [WBC, the "Christian" leaders in Uganda, etc.], and even that small number being vocal is a weight on the rest of Christianity who truly love them and want to help them. Who want to minister to them and see them find God.

Thank you, I agree. And it is a vocal minority. We need to be even more vocal in expressing our love.

 

[yesyoushould]

Sadly, actions speak louder than words, and many gay men and women have been on the receiving end of some pretty hurtful experiences. Ostensibly by "Christians" who claim(ed) it was because God doesn't like gays or such.

(I will just say I speak from experience here, and stop there.)

You are free to speak anything that concerns you, as are any others. We are all victims of those who choose to serve evil instead of God. Gods love is for all.

 

[Sketcher]

I've grown up in a very liberal area and so honestly I haven't seen the Christian hate for gays that many others have seen. I know it exists.

I am also a Christian. This is where I stand.


I believe we need to show the love of Christ to everyone, including gays. I also believe God loves gay people. I believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin as stated in the Bible. I believe that an unrepentant person who sins will go to hell. I also believe that it is a believers responsibility to speak up for these things when the subject arises.


I have lived many years not speaking up and simply "loving" and praying for the unrepentant sinners around me. I have come to the realization that simply praying in silence for those around you is not all we are called to do. We need to speak up when given the opportunity. Speak in love and with a gentle spirit, but do speak. And live your life as close to Christ as you can so that they may not find fault.

They're still going to brand you a hater for that. Don't be intimidated or fooled into changing your stance.

 

[joshuanazar]

They're still going to brand you a hater for that. Don't be intimidated or fooled into changing your stance.

Who are "they"?

 

[NewEnglandGirl]

Why do we necessarily need to speak up? Why would homosexuals assume that we automatically hate them unless someone is telling them this? To disagree with one's lifestyle is NOT to hate someone. There are a lot of contrary lifestyles out there and no one is without sin. That doesn't mean that we can't help and edify each other. One can love someone and not agree with that person's lifestyle. Except in the case where that person HAS BECOME their lifestyle because they are so immersed in their sin. Then it is very difficult. "If you accept me, you accept my lifestyle" or "you disagree with my lifestyle therefore you are hateful". One cannot compromise one's faith in these situations but must stand firm. I would not want someone compromising their faith for me if I were involved in something sinful. We must be loving, yes, but firm and grounded in the word of God.

 

[BryanW92]

Who are "they"?

The Progressives who seek to divide us into neatly packaged little special interest groups, so that a win for one must be a loss for another. This is how you "fundamentally transform" a nation of free individuals into a confederation of easily manipulated groups fighting over a mythical pie that is believed that it cannot grow except by government fiat.

 

[joshuanazar]

Why do we necessarily need to speak up? Why would homosexuals assume that we automatically hate them unless someone is telling them this? To disagree with one's lifestyle is NOT to hate someone. There are a lot of contrary lifestyles out there and no one is without sin. That doesn't mean that we can't help and edify each other. One can love someone and not agree with that person's lifestyle. Except in the case where that person HAS BECOME their lifestyle because they are so immersed in their sin. Then it is very difficult. "If you accept me, you accept my lifestyle" or "you disagree with my lifestyle therefore you are hateful". One cannot compromise one's faith in these situations but must stand firm. I would not want someone compromising their faith for me if I were involved in something sinful. We must be loving, yes, but firm and grounded in the word of God.

Well sometimes their are people claiming to be "christian" and still telling them that not only do they hate them but also that God hates them. That is why we need to speak up.

 

[joshuanazar]

The Progressives who seek to divide us into neatly packaged little special interest groups, so that a win for one must be a loss for another. This is how you "fundamentally transform" a nation of free individuals into a confederation of easily manipulated groups fighting over a mythical pie that is believed that it cannot grow except by government fiat.

Do you hate the progressives? It certainly sounds like you are at war with them.

 

[mafwons]

Why do we necessarily need to speak up? Why would homosexuals assume that we automatically hate them unless someone is telling them this? To disagree with one's lifestyle is NOT to hate someone. There are a lot of contrary lifestyles out there and no one is without sin. That doesn't mean that we can't help and edify each other. One can love someone and not agree with that person's lifestyle. Except in the case where that person HAS BECOME their lifestyle because they are so immersed in their sin. Then it is very difficult. "If you accept me, you accept my lifestyle" or "you disagree with my lifestyle therefore you are hateful". One cannot compromise one's faith in these situations but must stand firm. I would not want someone compromising their faith for me if I were involved in something sinful. We must be loving, yes, but firm and grounded in the word of God.

One can disagree with anothers lifestyle without making such a big deal about it, and seeking to marginalize that person in every way possible.

 

[BryanW92]

Do you hate the progressives? It certainly sounds like you are at war with them.

"War" is not the right word. "In conflict with" is a better choice. They've been in conflict with America since 1905.

 

[joshuanazar]

"War" is not the right word. "In conflict with" is a better choice. They've been in conflict with America since 1905.

We are not Americans. We belong to the Kingdom of God. So let the progressives and America be in conflict together, and we will fight the war that is being waged in the spirit, the war that has already been won. Regardless of what they are called, whether homosexuals, progressives, atheists, etc., mankind is not the enemy and they should never be treated as such. They should be treated as brothers who just have yet to come home. Love is what this world is lacking, and love is what we have got to give it. I am pretty confident that you will agree with me.

 

[Sketcher]

Who are "they"?

A good number of social liberals.

 

[joshuanazar]

A good number of social liberals.

They are my brothers and sisters lost out there in this dark world. And I am hoping that they can come back home.

 

[Aldebaran]

They are my brothers and sisters lost out there in this dark world. And I am hoping that they can come back home.

The thing is, if you talk to them that way, they see it as condescending. They feel like we're being "holier than thou"--as if we know all and that they just need to change themselves to believe exactly as we do. You've probably seen this before on the forum. I'm not sure what the answer is though.

 

[joshuanazar]

The thing is, if you talk to them that way, they see it as condescending. They feel like we're being "holier than thou"--as if we know all and that they just need to change themselves to believe exactly as we do. You've probably seen this before on the forum. I'm not sure what the answer is though.

Not all of them, just a vocal minority. And whether they take it the wrong way or not we need to continue showing them love no matter what it costs us, cause to do anything else is not showing them God.

 

[Sketcher]

They are my brothers and sisters lost out there in this dark world. And I am hoping that they can come back home.

Which takes nothing away from what I said. No matter how gently you say that you don't believe that homosexual activity is right, and that you love homosexuals anyway, there is still a sad number of social liberals who will brand you a hater for believing that. It's stupid, but it happens.

 

[joshuanazar]

Which takes nothing away from what I said. No matter how gently you say that you don't believe that homosexual activity is right, and that you love homosexuals anyway, there is still a sad number of social liberals who will brand you a hater for believing that. It's stupid, but it happens.

True this world is corrupt but whether they brand me a hater or not my actions will speak nothing but love.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

But the thread was started by someone who wanted to bash Christians for not celebrating gayness enough.If you want to know why we should care about gay marriage, just ask certain cake bakers, pizza cookers, photographers, florists, and B&B owners. In each Of those cases, alternatives were available, but the gay agenda set out to make examples and set precedents.

anyone of you who are impartial about this should read my posts on the first three pages to see what I actually said

this person just proves my point

full of hatred!

 

[timberwallace]

I think most Christians don't hate gays, but this conversations becomes very murky because of an intentionally expanded definition of the word "hate".