not all Christians hate gays, so why are we not speaking up?

[com7fy8]

firstly, I know most of us here agree homosexual lifestyle is a sin, but it is one of the sins. not the sin.

yet I see many mainstream Christians ( my impression at least), their hatred towards gays are personal

There are real Christians who have children who are being attacked by gay promotion stuff. This is dangerous to children, a very bad example, not loving children. I would say if you promote a bad example to children, you are hating children by betraying them with bad example. And one trick of an evil doer is to act like he or she is a nice person so he or she can say that what her she is doing is "ok". Even humanitarian activities can be designed to make an evil doer look acceptable.

So, yes it is wrong to hate gays, plus it is wrong for an evil doer to hate children by betraying a child with bad influence.

And acting nice in order to show that your wrong thing is ok is a very dirty and dangerous trick, also because if someone goes along with your disobedience, the person can get involved with "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2) And this spirit of Satan is the spirit of cruel hatred, as can be proven by how Satan's spirit messes people with unforgiveness, hurts, bitterness, frustration, arguing and complaining, and fears of various sorts and the personality torments of fears and . . . worry; these things are not loving people, but are cruel and therefore of hate. So, by showing people that your wrong stuff is "ok", you could be tempting them to get into the mess of the evil spirit which is causing wrong behavior.

And a trick is how ones in such degradation and misery are trying to use pleasures to feel relief from their nasty mess of sin; sensual pleasures are one of the counterfeit ways of feeling relief and "love", instead of the deep-down mess of sin. And those lusts for pleasures indeed are driving and dictatorial won't-take-no-for-an-answer emotions. So, they are not in the gentle and humble love of Jesus who gives us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30).

So, by encouraging people to accept wrong things, you can be helping people to miss out on having sweet and sensitive sharing and rest with God through Jesus.

His love won't have us bored and lonely, by the way. That stuff is also of the weakness in a disobedient spirit; boredom and loneliness also are not loving and kind and in God's love; and what they drive you to do may not be really good but give you only false relief. Jesus deeply corrects and heals and satisfies us and guides us to do what is beneficial. Jesus does not drive us and then waste us.

So, it is hate, also, to betray children with example which can take them away from God's way of loving.

Therefore, arguing and complaining also are bad example, and smoking and other harmful things are not loving children with our good example.

So, why are gay "haters" and gays getting so much attention? May be Satan's kingdom has designed this, in order to keep our attention away from how all of us need our own correction. Hebrews 12:6-11, Philippians 2:14-16, 1 Peter 5:3.

 

[joshuanazar]

There are real Christians who have children who are being attacked by gay promotion stuff. This is dangerous to children, a very bad example, not loving children. I would say if you promote a bad example to children, you are hating children by betraying them with bad example. And one trick of an evil doer is to act like he or she is a nice person so he or she can say that what her she is doing is "ok". Even humanitarian activities can be designed to make an evil doer look acceptable.

So, yes it is wrong to hate gays, plus it is wrong for an evil doer to hate children by betraying a child with bad influence.

And acting nice in order to show that your wrong thing is ok is a very dirty and dangerous trick, also because if someone goes along with your disobedience, the person can get involved with "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2) And this spirit of Satan is the spirit of cruel hatred, as can be proven by how Satan's spirit messes people with unforgiveness, hurts, bitterness, frustration, arguing and complaining, and fears of various sorts and the personality torments of fears and . . . worry; these things are not loving people, but are cruel and therefore of hate. So, by showing people that your wrong stuff is "ok", you could be tempting them to get into the mess of the evil spirit which is causing wrong behavior.

And a trick is how ones in such degradation and misery are trying to use pleasures to feel relief from their nasty mess of sin; sensual pleasures are one of the counterfeit ways of feeling relief and "love", instead of the deep-down mess of sin. And those lusts for pleasures indeed are driving and dictatorial won't-take-no-for-an-answer emotions. So, they are not in the gentle and humble love of Jesus who gives us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30).

So, by encouraging people to accept wrong things, you can be helping people to miss out on having sweet and sensitive sharing and rest with God through Jesus.

His love won't have us bored and lonely, by the way. That stuff is also of the weakness in a disobedient spirit; boredom and loneliness also are not loving and kind and in God's love; and what they drive you to do may not be really good but give you only false relief. Jesus deeply corrects and heals and satisfies us and guides us to do what is beneficial. Jesus does not drive us and then waste us.

So, it is hate, also, to betray children with example which can take them away from God's way of loving.

Therefore, arguing and complaining also are bad example, and smoking and other harmful things are not loving children with our good example.

So, why are gay "haters" and gays getting so much attention? May be Satan's kingdom has designed this, in order to keep our attention away from how all of us need our own correction. Hebrews 12:6-11, Philippians 2:14-16, 1 Peter 5:3.

I don't feel as if I was able to understand you post completely. But I will just ask what do you think the solution is?

 

[com7fy8]

I don't feel as if I was able to understand you post completely. But I will just ask what do you think the solution is?

Basically, one thing I mean is that we all must be good example to our children. Being a good example is included in loving them.

So, if any person is being a bad example, he or she is not loving children, by being a bad example. But there are wrong people so unhappy about being "hated", right while they are not loving children by being good examples, themselves.

And ones being bad examples include gays, yes, but also people who smoke and drink in a wrong way, and people who argue and fight and are unforgiving and bitter and cursing and complaining all are being bad examples to children.

So, the solution includes how we need to be good examples to our children!!

And we "have" to know the difference between right and wrong; so if gay stuff is wrong, we need to know this and say so to our children. But also point out how it is wrong to hate and hurt gay people, or any other people who are wrong. Jesus suffered and died on the cross, with hope for any wrong person, at all, to be changed by God to living in His family caring and sharing love.

But we need to know what is wrong, so we our own selves don't do it.

So, I would say the solution includes making sure we know and say what is wrong, but also that we love and care for wrong people and have hope for how God is able to correct them.

And do not buy into that stuff that wrong people can not change. Satan's kingdom has things rigged to make it look like wrong people can not change. Well, they can not change themselves; only God can >

"The things which are impossible with me are possible with God." (in Luke 18:27)

Ezekiel 33:11 makes it plain that any evil person is expected by God to turn from his or her evil ways, and live. So, God considers this to be a realistic expectation.

And our Father has provided His Son Jesus to die on the cross for us, so any person can be forgiven, reconciled with God, and and submit to however He corrects us (Hebrews 13:6-11).

So, yes, Jesus Himself is our real solution

"'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.'" (Matthew 11:28-30)

We can see how so many people do not have rest for their souls, while they do their sinful things. And yes ones hate them.

If a wrong person comes to Jesus, Jesus guarantees you will be hated for being with Jesus. But with Jesus, while people hate you, we have our Father sharing His own love with us (Romans 5:5), giving us "rest for your souls".

So, a lifestyle of sin is not worth being hated for.

 

[Jesse2014]

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[Jesse2014]

I would like to say that I agrre that it is a shame that homosexuals try to push their liberties on people. I mean, their liberties violate other people's liberties. I find that dissappointing. Like that whole religious freedom bill.

I don't think we should descriminate people who are gay. But I understand why Christian or other religious dicriminate homosexual behaviour.

I don't believe that Christians are hateful people. I am gay, without the activity of homosexuality (except I struggle with lust, but I am slowly gaining victory).

Even though I don't believe Christians are hateful, I don't think they are comfortable around homosexuals; even if they don't practice the lifestyle.

I went to church; and I was honest of who I was. Christians were very friendly and loving. They would shake my hand; and some would even give me hugs. They would pray for me; and minister to me in other Christian ways. They would tell me that they are glad I came. They we loving.

But regardless of all these things: I never got invited to Christmas dinners, even though everyone else went to each others houses; I did not get invited to hang out with the boys, though they did that quite a bit (except I went to a bond fire, which the whole church was invited to). I still wasn't treated the same, as loving as they were.

I can't blame them, though. Homosexuality is not only sinful, but it's unnatural. Most people are afraid of what's not normal, especially when they are not around it that much. So I accept their reservation when meeting me.

Actually, I guess that's not true. I broke fellowship with Christians, except on social network obviously, as a result of their reservation. But I still I understand why they are reserved; even though it hurts.

A long time ago, I wrote a thread asking the guys if they knew a homosexual who has turned from their sin who was in their church, if they could be friends with them, most of them said they would be uncomfortable, but they will be loving. I didn't get mad or threw scriptures at them. I was honest and said I was hurt, but I understood.

So in conclusion, Christians are loving towards gays. But a friendship between a heterosexual Christian and a man with homosexual tendency is not possible, which is too bad. They may I think I got the wrong idea.

 

[joshuanazar]

Basically, one thing I mean is that we all must be good example to our children. Being a good example is included in loving them.

So, if any person is being a bad example, he or she is not loving children, by being a bad example. But there are wrong people so unhappy about being "hated", right while they are not loving children by being good examples, themselves.

And ones being bad examples include gays, yes, but also people who smoke and drink in a wrong way, and people who argue and fight and are unforgiving and bitter and cursing and complaining all are being bad examples to children.

So, the solution includes how we need to be good examples to our children!!

And we "have" to know the difference between right and wrong; so if gay stuff is wrong, we need to know this and say so to our children. But also point out how it is wrong to hate and hurt gay people, or any other people who are wrong. Jesus suffered and died on the cross, with hope for any wrong person, at all, to be changed by God to living in His family caring and sharing love.

But we need to know what is wrong, so we our own selves don't do it.

So, I would say the solution includes making sure we know and say what is wrong, but also that we love and care for wrong people and have hope for how God is able to correct them.

And do not buy into that stuff that wrong people can not change. Satan's kingdom has things rigged to make it look like wrong people can not change. Well, they can not change themselves; only God can >

"The things which are impossible with me are possible with God." (in Luke 18:27)

Ezekiel 33:11 makes it plain that any evil person is expected by God to turn from his or her evil ways, and live. So, God considers this to be a realistic expectation.

And our Father has provided His Son Jesus to die on the cross for us, so any person can be forgiven, reconciled with God, and and submit to however He corrects us (Hebrews 13:6-11).

So, yes, Jesus Himself is our real solution

"'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.'" (Matthew 11:28-30)

We can see how so many people do not have rest for their souls, while they do their sinful things. And yes ones hate them.

If a wrong person comes to Jesus, Jesus guarantees you will be hated for being with Jesus. But with Jesus, while people hate you, we have our Father sharing His own love with us (Romans 5:5), giving us "rest for your souls".

So, a lifestyle of sin is not worth being hated for.

I can agree with that. But want to stress the importance of grace and the Holy Spirit's help.

 

[TravelerFarAwayFromHome]

Basically, one thing I mean is that we all must be good example to our children. Being a good example is included in loving them.

So, if any person is being a bad example, he or she is not loving children, by being a bad example. But there are wrong people so unhappy about being "hated", right while they are not loving children by being good examples, themselves.

And ones being bad examples include gays, yes, but also people who smoke and drink in a wrong way, and people who argue and fight and are unforgiving and bitter and cursing and complaining all are being bad examples to children.

So, the solution includes how we need to be good examples to our children!!

.

you seem more reasonable than most on this forum

however, I am disturbed at the fact you keep singling gays out

like I have said, gay lifestyle is not the only evil thing going on.

to make my point

I am just reading this Catholic blog on what to do when one's gay relative want to bring their partner to a family gathering.

the person who post the question have this ignorant, hateful idea, that is standing up for her faith by boycotting her family member

how nasty

and the person answer the question seem to do a little bit better

but still talk about gays like one could catch, and suggest something like removing the children from their presence

yet I suspect this woman who asked the question would have invited non Christians and their boyfriend and girlfriend to her house tons of times.

and I am sure her children has contact with non Christians who currently are in a dating relationship

so why single gays out?

that is hate

yes, we should teach our children what is right and wrong.

but not through making other life a misery, that is a disgusting example to set

so don't try to use innocent children as an excuse for gay bashing.

and don't try to employ false logic and equate a gay person to a person who is drunk or swear

I wont want my children to be around someone who are drunk or swear, but I have no problem with them being around a straight non Christian and their boyfriend and girlfriend.

unless of course, they start actively telling my children that there is nothing wrong with premarital sex, but otherwise, no.

sinners have the right to live, to breath and to participate in community, without being excluded for simply exist.

I want my children to know what is right and wrong.

I also want them to know it is wrong to exclude, punish people whose eyes haven't open by God yet. for simply disagree with us or is living in sin.

 

[abysmul]

however, I am disturbed at the fact you keep singling gays out

That is what this thread is about. That is the topic at hand.

Why are you disturbed that the topic of the thread is being discussed here?

 

[Aldebaran]

sinners have the right to live, to breath and to participate in community, without being excluded for simply exist.

I want my children to know what is right and wrong.

I also want them to know it is wrong to exclude, punish people whose eyes haven't open by God yet. for simply disagree with us or is living in sin.

Oftentimes, a person has to be shown that their behavior is not acceptable. If a church holds a family gathering, and then gay people show up with their partners, then the children who are there are being exposed to the situation of homosexuality. Do you think the church wants to show the children that we accept open homosexuality? Having them there as a "couple" is basically putting on display that it somehow is acceptable. Understand that children are still learning, and a church should be a place where they can be taught that certain things are right and wrong. Of course, one might say that we're teaching them that "discrimination" is right, while another would say that allowing openly sinful behavior is wrong and not acceptable. It all depends on which side of the gay issue you fall on.

 

[com7fy8]

I would like to say that I agrre that it is a shame that homosexuals try to push their liberties on people. I mean, their liberties violate other people's liberties. I find that dissappointing. Like that whole religious freedom bill.

That way of using law is sad, but I don't think "all" gays are into using legal force and intimidation. But I "get" that certain activists might be trying to give religious people a taste of their own medicine > and, after all, ones have been church hypocrites but they have been accepted in churches, and Jesus I would say had the biggest problem with hypocrites and unforgiveness.

"'And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you.'" (Mark 11:25)

So, there are Christians who well understand that we have been forgiven and we were sinners the same as any evil people, that Jesus died for all of us. We all were guilty of the murder of Jesus on the cross. And I know we in our church have had at least one legally married couple who came, for a while, but when one of them once referred them as "married", in our group, we did not confirm that statement.

For a while I was having conversations with the other one. I was being very nice and kind and communicative, not knowing their relationship. Then, one day, she smiled in a certain way that to me meant maybe she felt I was checking her out and she wondered if I "got" that she was not available. But I was not trying to get into a relationship, but relate with her as with anyone.

No one made a point of telling me they were with each other.

But in group, once, I think, the leader did simply say gay stuff is wrong, but not seeming to aim at them. And we have talked more often about how we ourselves can be wrong, and a main issue is how we ourselves need to forgive and be healed about very cruel wrongs that have been done to us in our past.

At a certain church, I reported something I did when I was almost, I think, a teenager. There are people who have given me some harsh treatment about that which I did about 55 years ago, twenty-five years before I submitted to and trusted in Jesus. But in that church I never got a word from a member. I brought this up, once, with a new pastor, and he said may be they had enough to deal with that really was a present problem, I think he might have meant.

I would consider that "enough" Jesus people are dealing with what they themselves need to be corrected about and deal with in their lives. But ones public can make quite a show, like they represent "all" gays or "all" Christians. And counterfeit unloving people can be used by Satan's kingdom to give real Christianity a bad name.

So, Jesse, I think we in Jesus do not "understand" people discriminating. But we do realize we all are not perfect. So, we ourselves can still have problems with hypocrisy and our own "sexual" problems of some sort and arguing and complaining and frustration and stress. All these are not being faithful to our Groom Jesus, if we have relationships with these wrong things. So, even if we do not "hate" gays, it can be good to be reminded not to and pray and learn to better relate in love with any and all people, how God corrects and guides us to >

"If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men." (Romans 12:18)

 

[com7fy8]

I don't think we should descriminate people who are gay. But I understand why Christian or other religious dicriminate homosexual behaviour.

Like I offered, above, I don't think we should "understand" however "Christians" discriminate against gay people. That is wrong, too > against how God would have us loving any and all people. But I do not mean we should accept wrong activities and help them.

It also is discrimination to say gays are ok and do not need forgiveness, while others do need Jesus on the cross. Jesus payed His own blood for every person to be forgiven of every sin. So, it is anti-Christ to treat gays like they are some special group who do not need this > it is anti-forgiveness, to not have hope that any person can be forgiven and totally freed from any sin problem.

I don't believe that Christians are hateful people. I am gay, without the activity of homosexuality (except I struggle with lust, but I am slowly gaining victory).

I understand that when we first trust in Jesus, we are cleared of all in our past. We start new. But we are not perfect. So, for the rest of our lives we will be getting corrected and matured in how God's love cures our nature and how God personally guides us.

So, Jesse, I think we need to see ourselves as being cleared of however we were wrong, and not keep any of that as our present identity. So, I would say, if you are in Jesus now, you are not gay. If you get attacked and messed-with by that stuff, this does not mean this is you!! It comes from the evil kingdom, and you are now in God's kingdom. But it can make itself seem like it is you.

If you are in Christ, you are a child of God, you are not a homosexual. So, with God keep doing better and with God prove that He is able to change any of us out of any sin problem

In my case, Jesse, after I got away from the evil I was into, then there were other things that got started. There always will be evil things which Satan will use to attack us and try to change us into doing wrong stuff. If we get wise to one thing, then there can be other things.

For example, I stopped being evil for the sake of it, but then I became a religious freak and poor in relating with people. Stopping the evil did not mean I became a genuinely loving person!!!! When I first committed to stopping evil, I did not really trust in Jesus but I did the religious things I understood I needed to do in order to get to Heaven. But it was all about getting my own self to Heaven, not caring as much about others as myself . . . not loving my neighbor as myself.

And there was weird heterosexual stuff in me, and building up of raging anger which would explode, at times. I could treat everyday silly guys like dirt and look down on people. So, I was a freak of conceit, and didn't even know the difference. So, my sin nature was still there making me available to being Satanic like that.

So, if you still can be messed-with by gay stuff, your deeper nature can also make you available to other things. So, we trust God to deeply cure us in His love so we are less and less available to Satan's messing us. We all need this.

"Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

Even though I don't believe Christians are hateful, I don't think they are comfortable around homosexuals; even if they don't practice the lifestyle.

But, Jesse, if you have trusted in Jesus, homosexual is no longer your identity. So, you are not a "homosexual" for others to not be comfortable around, I offer What are you calling attention to, in your conversations?? The Bible says, "Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth." (Colossians 3:2)

I went to church; and I was honest of who I was. Christians were very friendly and loving. They would shake my hand; and some would even give me hugs. They would pray for me; and minister to me in other Christian ways. They would tell me that they are glad I came. They we loving.

But regardless of all these things: I never got invited to Christmas dinners, even though everyone else went to each others houses; I did not get invited to hang out with the boys, though they did that quite a bit (except I went to a bond fire, which the whole church was invited to). I still wasn't treated the same, as loving as they were.

Yes, that can be discrimination, by ones who are discriminating. Others could feel they should not try to make you fit in with how they live, but give you space to develop to being comfortable with your change. Not all people do the same things for the same reason.

For me, being only with the guys is not so great. And only being with ladies is not so great. But being with the whole church as family is very good for me. We are family in Jesus "where there is neither male nor female" (in Galatians 3:28). So, I appreciate however I develop with each person and group, and be appreciative of each moment . . . quality not quantity can be how it is.

I find that when I am ready in love, things open up for me to love And it is not in some "typical" way of being invited to dinner or to hang out; it is unique and . . . created

I can't blame them, though. Homosexuality is not only sinful, but it's unnatural. Most people are afraid of what's not normal, especially when they are not around it that much. So I accept their reservation when meeting me.

All right . . . so if ones are not able to relate with you well, it may be they do not know how to love with ones closer to them, also. There are a lot of Christian "culture" people who can not handle being with people different than themselves. So, you and I, too, need to learn how to relate with birds not of our own feather!! And not be pushing and expecting and demanding and "entitled" in our attitude, but be appreciative of every moment with any person, to love that person.

And you will see how things add up . . . having compassion for those who do not know how to love you >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

Be strong in love, then, and this strength will make you strong against any anti-love lusts and feelings and reacting that come to mess with you . . . not just wrong anti-sexual stuff, but things that would get you into frustration, arguing, complaining, unforgiveness, bitterness, raging anger > Ephesians 4:31-5:2 < how God is able to do this with us.

Actually, I guess that's not true. I broke fellowship with Christians, except on social network obviously, as a result of their reservation. But I still I understand why they are reserved; even though it hurts.

I have told people about my past and ones would be sharp with me, yes, but I could use that to help me realize how wrong I was to do things that I did . . . not feeling for others, betraying trust. But there always have been Christians who know exactly how to relate with me and encourage me. And times with them could be "quality not quantity", though. But I need to get real, myself, in how to love; I have been "convicted" by the example of those who knew how to relate humbly in love . . . convicted that I also need to become real in loving and relating. But I never have been convicted by the ones who were harsh.

A long time ago, I wrote a thread asking the guys if they knew a homosexual who has turned from their sin who was in their church, if they could be friends with them, most of them said they would be uncomfortable, but they will be loving. I didn't get mad or threw scriptures at them. I was honest and said I was hurt, but I understood.

But if you have trusted in Jesus, you are no longer a homosexual!!! So, why would you be trying to get them to "accept" you as a homosexual??

We should not be comfortable with any sin. If people start arguing, I am not going to be comfortable with them while they are arguing . . . or complaining . . . or gossiping . . . or making a project of bad-mouthing gays. When a guy started smoking just outside a church, I got very uncomfortable about him being such a bad example for the children who could be passing him there.

But this is "the real world". I consider that children need to be taught about what is wrong, so they can see it and know it is wrong. So, I would not try to bring up children in a "sterile" situation.

But if you still have not trusted in Jesus, ones could be concerned about if being more alone with you somewhere could be causing you temptation and frustration, or they could be concerned that their personal lives could be "pushing" Christianity on you. While Christian guys are hanging out, for example, they might be praying and talking about God's word and other things which you are not comfortable with. They might not want to push that on you. It can be like how Jesus took His disciples alone in the garden, for things they did which nonbelievers would not care for. Even Jesus did not do everything with everyone, but He went by how His relationship was with each person. One woman would kiss His feet, another didn't

So in conclusion, Christians are loving towards gays. But a friendship between a heterosexual Christian and a man with homosexual tendency is not possible, which is too bad. They may I think I got the wrong idea.

They might. But in Christian relating we need to have our mind on things above. So, in case you are somehow calling attention to being "gay", this is not calling our attention to things above. And ones, then, might feel it is good to be careful with you.

On the other hand, there are times when we need to confess our sin problems to each other, and our prayer can help each other get more "healed" into living God's own love >

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

And, like I say, why try to get isolated in a "friendship" with one man? We can share as family in settings with a variety of people so we can learn how to love with all kinds of people, as family and not isolated with favorites > Matthew 5:46 And have the attitude that people are right to test us before they trust us. I understand we need to be able to discern how God wants us to trust each person, and welcome others to prayerfully test us

 

[com7fy8]

you seem more reasonable than most on this forum

however, I am disturbed at the fact you keep singling gays out

This thread's subject has singled out gays. So, I am staying on topic, by talking about gays

like I have said, gay lifestyle is not the only evil thing going on.

In my posting here I have made it clear that smoking and arguing also are evil and very bad example to children. So, I offer you that I have not singled out gays to be the only bad examples for children, but I have included smoking and arguing and complaining and frustration and unforgiveness and hypocrisy and conceit as being very wrong . . . anti-love.

So, I agree with you that I must not single out gay stuff as being the only wrong thing. So, thank you for reminding me

I am just reading this Catholic blog on what to do when one's gay relative want to bring their partner to a family gathering.

the person who post the question have this ignorant, hateful idea, that is standing up for her faith by boycotting her family member

how nasty

and the person answer the question seem to do a little bit better

but still talk about gays like one could catch, and suggest something like removing the children from their presence

Oh, you mean they think gay stuff can infect children?? Well, there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," Paul says in Ephesians 2:2. The evil spirit of disobedient behavior can indeed spread through bad example to effect others. For only one example, if I start arguing I can spread this to help others to also argue.

And we see how people of a group can get each other to do what is evil, like smoking and drinking in ways that are harmful.

But the solution is not to keep away from any and all people who sin. Because . . . in this world . . . that would be a "problem", to do that. But we need to get real and strong in Jesus so we are strong against how the Satanic spirit can effect us. Satan's spirit "works", Paul says, in disobedient people. I notice how wrong emotions and drives work very hard to make people seek pleasure. They are trying to feel something nice so they do not feel their deep-down misery of frustration and fears and worry and hate and boredom and loneliness and hurts. So, gay pleasure seeking is not the only way people are trying to use pleasure to ease their misery.

Only Jesus can give us real rest and enjoyment . . . in His love with Heaven's goodness and quality of peace.

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

But . . . also . . . we see how a number of Christians can use food to try to ease their deep problem feelings and get relief from their drives for pleasure. Food abuse is wrong, too.

In my case, I can try to use the word of God to get attention and make myself look good. This is wrong, also - - a way of trying to make myself seem like somebody, instead of trusting our Father to correct me to find out how to really love > Hebrews 12:6-11.

so why single gays out?

that is hate

yes, we should teach our children what is right and wrong.

but not through making other life a misery, that is a disgusting example to set

so don't try to use innocent children as an excuse for gay bashing.

We must be good example to our children. Gay stuff is not a good example, and gay bashing also is not a good example. And, as I offered, arguing and complaining and unforgiveness also are bad example to children.

and don't try to employ false logic and equate a gay person to a person who is drunk or swear

I think I see what you mean. If a gay person is behaving well around children, then I would not have a problem with them being together. But if the person is making some promotion of gay stuff or acting it out, I would have a problem, like if someone was drinking wrong and swearing. But I think we need to teach our children what is wrong so they know not to accept bad example. Because they are going to be around wrong things.

I wont want my children to be around someone who are drunk or swear, but I have no problem with them being around a straight non Christian and their boyfriend and girlfriend.

unless of course, they start actively telling my children that there is nothing wrong with premarital sex, but otherwise, no.

And I would say the same for a gay person: just don't be telling the children that gay is ok.

sinners have the right to live, to breath and to participate in community, without being excluded for simply exist.

I want my children to know what is right and wrong.

I also want them to know it is wrong to exclude, punish people whose eyes haven't open by God yet. for simply disagree with us or is living in sin.

I don't think I wrote that we should exclude gays; but like you say, we need to teach our children right from wrong, and how to relate with people who are doing wrong things. Jesus has hope for any person, at all, to be with God and corrected and how God has us loving any and all people with hope for anyone >

Love "hopes all things" > in 1 Corinthians 13:7. So, I am not sure what you think I meant, but I think you have some good ideas; so God bless you with bringing up your children

"Husbands, love your wives, and do not be bitter toward them." (Colossians 3:19) Especially, be a good example of all that is right . . . how to love >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

We need "longsuffering" with everyone, I think this means, since we all are not perfect

 

[joshuanazar]

This thread's subject has singled out gays. So, I am staying on topic, by talking about gays

In my posting here I have made it clear that smoking and arguing also are evil and very bad example to children. So, I offer you that I have not singled out gays to be the only bad examples for children, but I have included smoking and arguing and complaining and frustration and unforgiveness and hypocrisy and conceit as being very wrong . . . anti-love.

So, I agree with you that I must not single out gay stuff as being the only wrong thing. So, thank you for reminding me

Oh, you mean they think gay stuff can infect children?? Well, there is "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience," Paul says in Ephesians 2:2. The evil spirit of disobedient behavior can indeed spread through bad example to effect others. For only one example, if I start arguing I can spread this to help others to also argue.

And we see how people of a group can get each other to do what is evil, like smoking and drinking in ways that are harmful.

But the solution is not to keep away from any and all people who sin. Because . . . in this world . . . that would be a "problem", to do that. But we need to get real and strong in Jesus so we are strong against how the Satanic spirit can effect us. Satan's spirit "works", Paul says, in disobedient people. I notice how wrong emotions and drives work very hard to make people seek pleasure. They are trying to feel something nice so they do not feel their deep-down misery of frustration and fears and worry and hate and boredom and loneliness and hurts. So, gay pleasure seeking is not the only way people are trying to use pleasure to ease their misery.

Only Jesus can give us real rest and enjoyment . . . in His love with Heaven's goodness and quality of peace.

"'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.'" (Matthew 11:29)

But . . . also . . . we see how a number of Christians can use food to try to ease their deep problem feelings and get relief from their drives for pleasure. Food abuse is wrong, too.

In my case, I can try to use the word of God to get attention and make myself look good. This is wrong, also - - a way of trying to make myself seem like somebody, instead of trusting our Father to correct me to find out how to really love > Hebrews 12:6-11.

We must be good example to our children. Gay stuff is not a good example, and gay bashing also is not a good example. And, as I offered, arguing and complaining and unforgiveness also are bad example to children.

I think I see what you mean. If a gay person is behaving well around children, then I would not have a problem with them being together. But if the person is making some promotion of gay stuff or acting it out, I would have a problem, like if someone was drinking wrong and swearing. But I think we need to teach our children what is wrong so they know not to accept bad example. Because they are going to be around wrong things.

And I would say the same for a gay person: just don't be telling the children that gay is ok.

I don't think I wrote that we should exclude gays; but like you say, we need to teach our children right from wrong, and how to relate with people who are doing wrong things. Jesus has hope for any person, at all, to be with God and corrected and how God has us loving any and all people with hope for anyone >

Love "hopes all things" > in 1 Corinthians 13:7. So, I am not sure what you think I meant, but I think you have some good ideas; so God bless you with bringing up your children

"Husbands, love your wives, and do not be bitter toward them." (Colossians 3:19) Especially, be a good example of all that is right . . . how to love >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

We need "longsuffering" with everyone, I think this means, since we all are not perfect

You have wrote a lot in your last two threads, obviously I didn't read all of it. But I did read most of it and I want to say that I agree with everything that I have read.

 

[Voicesheard]

firstly, I know most of us here agree homosexual lifestyle is a sin, but it is one of the sins. not the sin.

yet I see many mainstream Christians ( my impression at least), their hatred towards gays are personal

you can see this by the fact they want to 'force' gays to change their ways instead of the usual route with the sinners, and that is share gospels with them and love them, not "treat them with love' but full of hatred for them, which doesn't take a genius to figure that one out?

I am just watching this video, and the preacher hit the hammer on the nail but saying " don't bother sharing gospel with them if you are not going to act like Christ"

but more importantly, there are many of us who don't agree with those Christians such as Franklin Graham, who seem to be shouting the loudest in the media, yet we say nothing to contradict them, and let them know not all Christians are like that?

I agree with what you said. A long time ago, a group of people have drawn that fine line between Christians & the gays creating the ultimate divide. If a Christian shows hatred towards the gays & the liberals, then they aren't true Christians & they have given the rest of us a bad name. As the Bible says, "Hate the sin, not the sinner." We can preach to the gays explaining why God frowns on their immoral lifestyle but we can't force them to change their ways. I remember on a website that I admitted that I was a Christian & I got cyber bashed for it because according to the people who had a lot to say about my Christian faith, accused me of being a hater all because I admitted that I was a Christian. I told them that not all Christians are haters & the ones that are, aren't truly Christians so I have spoken up on the Christian's behalf but the liberals chose not to believe me thus encouraging that ultimate divide between the Christians & the liberals as well as gays.

 

[Aldebaran]

I agree with what you said. A long time ago, a group of people have drawn that fine line between Christians & the gays creating the ultimate divide. If a Christian shows hatred towards the gays & the liberals, then they aren't true Christians & they have given the rest of us a bad name. As the Bible says, "Hate the sin, not the sinner." We can preach to the gays explaining why God frowns on their immoral lifestyle but we can't force them to change their ways. I remember on a website that I admitted that I was a Christian & I got cyber bashed for it because according to the people who had a lot to say about my Christian faith, accused me of being a hater all because I admitted that I was a Christian. I told them that not all Christians are haters & the ones that are, aren't truly Christians so I have spoken up on the Christian's behalf but the liberals chose not to believe me thus encouraging that ultimate divide between the Christians & the liberals as well as gays.

Many people see these things as the same. If one speaks against homosexuality, then it's taken as a hatred of "who they are". That's where the misunderstandings happen.

 

[Voicesheard]

when I start this thread, it is not for those who are trying to justify hatred towards others human beings, gays in this case.

while according to forum rules, all can post replies, but you would think as a Christian , on would show some respect.

as for your reply.

ALL non Christians do not SEE sin as sin, so of course non of them would consider they are struggling with anything.

whether it is homosexual relationships or straight premarital sex.

the only reason gays are defiant with their sins is because Christians tries to single them out and demonize them, and apply a complete double standard to them compare with straight non Christians. so the fact they are so defiant in showing it is really a reaction to our hatred.

furthermore, not only you apply a double standard to homosexual relationship, you actually uses the standard reserve for believers and apply to non believers

it is expected non believers would not agree with scripture, they are suppose to be blind.

it is our job to show them love and gospel, and pray God will open their eyes.

not to hold it against them, and then direct hatred towards them

because if it is not for God open our eyes, you and I could be worse than they are.

I think it is very unbecoming for Christians to act like we are superior, even though it is through God's grace alone that our eyes are opened.

to say that the only reason gays are defiant with their sins is because Christians tries to single them out and demonized them, and apply a complete double standard to them care with straight non Christians. So the fact they are so defiant is showing it is really a reaction to our hatred is a tad bit judgmental isn't it. In a way, you are demonizing us Christians as hateful people. Just because we are Christians, doesn't mean we are hateful towards the gay & liberal community. Now when you say us, are you throwing yourself in that category as the rest of us Christians? I'm going to say this, NOT ALL CHRISTIANS HATE GAYS. The ones that do aren't true Christians. You don't know us personally so you don't know what's in our hearts. How do you know that we don't pray for them? How do you know we don't show them respect or kindness because God says we should love thy neighbor. Please review what you had said. You may want to change a few things in it but that is totally up to you. And God Bless you.

 

[Voicesheard]

Many people see these things as the same. If one speaks against homosexuality, then it's taken as a hatred of "who they are". That's where the misunderstandings happen.

Sad but true. I know when I said I was a Christian is because someone said that all Christians were homaphobes so I told them that I'm Christian & I'm not a homephobe because God said we should love thy neighbor & They cyber bashed me. Not one person stuck up for me so I politely left that site.

 

[Aldebaran]

Sad but true. I know when I said I was a Christian is because someone said that all Christians were homaphobes so I told them that I'm Christian & I'm not a homephobe because God said we should love thy neighbor & They cyber bashed me. Not one person stuck up for me so I politely left that site.

Was it the Christians who bashed you? Was it because you said you were not a homophobe?

 

[lismore]

yet I see many mainstream Christians ( my impression at least), their hatred towards gays are personal

I'm sorry to hear that. I believe that we Christians should share our hope with homosexual people with gentleness and respect, showing the love of Christ to them but also explaining clearly why we believe as we do. We should be good Neighbours and good Samaritans to all. God Bless You Sir

 

[lismore]

Oftentimes, a person has to be shown that their behavior is not acceptable. If a church holds a family gathering, and then gay people show up with their partners, then the children who are there are being exposed to the situation of homosexuality. Do you think the church wants to show the children that we accept open homosexuality? Having them there as a "couple" is basically putting on display that it somehow is acceptable.

That's an interesting example friend. The situation should be handled honestly and tactfully. How it is handled will determine whether the homosexual couple will admire you as principled believers, even though disagreeing with you, or shun you as bigots.


But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.

God Bless