Normal or paranormal

[GrowingSmaller]

Paranormal can cover a wide variety of things.
The most notable paranormal beliefs include those that pertain to ghosts, extraterrestrial life, unidentified flying objects, psychic abilities or extrasensory perception, and cryptids.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal
paranormal
That cannot be explained by science or reason and that seems to involve mysterious forces.

I wonder if spooky action at a distance would come under this meaning.

I think that yes, intentions for instance, they dont have a measurable effect - it would be beyond sensne to measure this (intends....) and its effects on you. But there will probably be an effect somewhere in the mysterious side of astrophysics, just as there is a candle of light from the accumulated shining of stars which we catch the glimmer of on a cloudless night. etc.

The way I see it is like a framework. The universe is balanced on the framework of the brain, and you affect the universe with evey single cognitive action. And thought and deed.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

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[quatona]

When I said "completely" that was hyperbole.

That´s not a good idea when trying to communicate controversial thoughts.
So you meant to say: "The universe is both explicable and unexplicable"?

I think this relates to set theory though. Imagine the explanation of all things.

Ok.

Does it explain itself.

No, not necessarily. Then again - what exactly do you mean when you talk about the explanation of an explanation? What about the explanation do you expect to be explained?

It would have to in order to be a complete explanation.

No, it wouldn´t.
An explanation is not a "thing" - so, in order for to explain all things an explanation needn´t "explain itself" (whatever you might mean by that phrase).
Besides, nobody´s talking about one single complete explanation "of all things". We are talking about a lot of explanations of a lot of things.

I think you are tangling yourself up in your own unprecise use of language. Don´t blame that on the universe.

 

[Loudmouth]

When I said "completely" that was hyperbole. I think this relates to set theory though. Imagine the explanation of all things. Does it explain itself. It would have to in order to be a complete explanation. Like the set of all sets, does it contain itself. Somehting like the "barber paradox" but with science....

If you claim something is paranormal, you are claiming to know how something works. You are saying that it lies outside of reality. Where is the evidence for this?

Do you also need to show us how the paranormal processes came to be before you can claim they are paranormal?

 

[Loudmouth]

I think that yes, intentions for instance, they dont have a measurable effect - it would be beyond sensne to measure this (intends....) and its effects on you.

If it has no measurable effect, then how do you know it exists?

But there will probably be an effect somewhere in the mysterious side of astrophysics, just as there is a candle of light from the accumulated shining of stars which we catch the glimmer of on a cloudless night. etc.

Probably?

The way I see it is like a framework. The universe is balanced on the framework of the brain, and you affect the universe with evey single cognitive action. And thought and deed.

How is that any different than any other particle flitting around in the universe?

 

[GrowingSmaller]

If you claim something is paranormal, you are claiming to know how something works. You are saying that it lies outside of reality. Where is the evidence for this?

Do you also need to show us how the paranormal processes came to be before you can claim they are paranormal?

No the paranormal is such by virtue of the fact that attempts at explaining a priori miss the point.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

If it has no measurable effect, then how do you know it exists?



Probably?



How is that any different than any other particle flitting around in the universe?

Loudmouth.



Well you seem to want to be nihilistic (in the sense of make void, make a nothing of etc) about the caussal power of thoughts intentones etc, and at the same time have a love relationship with theoretical entities like atoms, electrons etc.

Neitzsche called religions nihilistic because they made such a nothing out of life,and hence were anti-life, they downplayed the importance of what is primary etc.

I see scientists doing the same somemes, so we have "time is an illusion" or "mental life has no causal power".

I say probably because, I know, I may be wrong.

But if atoms have causel power, so do intentions. They may not bear fruit in an obvious fashion (I intend a gold egg to arise and it doesnt), but to conclude they therefore have no causal role is a non sequitir.

Theres plenty we cant measure, see chaos theory for proven examples.

If you accept that for every mental event theres a physical event, then theres billions upon biollions of bits of DNA in each cell, part of a complex system relating to mind, in the billion upon billion cell brain. So intentions a fortiori have more influence then mere particles etc. Just as cakes are more filling than crumbs.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

That´s not a good idea when trying to communicate controversial thoughts.
So you meant to say: "The universe is both explicable and unexplicable"?

Ok.

No, not necessarily. Then again - what exactly do you mean when you talk about the explanation of an explanation? What about the explanation do you expect to be explained?

No, it wouldn´t.
An explanation is not a "thing" - so, in order for to explain all things an explanation needn´t "explain itself" (whatever you might mean by that phrase).
Besides, nobody´s talking about one single complete explanation "of all things". We are talking about a lot of explanations of a lot of things.

I think you are tangling yourself up in your own unprecise use of language. Don´t blame that on the universe.

So dont we have at least 2 categories, the Scientific and explicable, and "_____" (propose a term here - better then paranormal - for the other aspect of existence).

 

[quatona]

So dont we have at least 2 categories, the Scientific and explicable, and "_____" (propose a term here - better then paranormal - for the other aspect of existence).

No, "the unexplained" isn´t a category, strictly speaking. It´s an ex negativo (non-)concept - everything else would be presumptuous. Calling it an "aspect of existence" would be elevating it from something that it is not to something that it is, for no reason.
But I don´t know what this question has to do with my previous post, anyway.

 

[Loudmouth]

Well you seem to want to be nihilistic (in the sense of make void, make a nothing of etc) about the caussal power of thoughts intentones etc, and at the same time have a love relationship with theoretical entities like atoms, electrons etc.

Then you don't understand what I am saying because I said nothing of the like.

 

[ecco]

Paranormal can cover a wide variety of things.
The most notable paranormal beliefs include those that pertain to ghosts, extraterrestrial life, unidentified flying objects, psychic abilities or extrasensory perception, and cryptids.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranormal
paranormal
That cannot be explained by science or reason and that seems to involve mysterious forces.

Gods! You forgot gods.

I wonder if spooky action at a distance would come under this meaning.

No.

 

[ecco]

The way I see it is like a framework. The universe is balanced on the framework of the brain, and you affect the universe with evey single cognitive action. And thought and deed.

The above is an example of belief in the paranormal.

 

[GrowingSmaller]

How so, every event has a consequence, thoughts are events...

 

[quatona]

How so, every event has a consequence,

...but not necessarily astrophysical consequences.

 

[stevevw]

...but not necessarily astrophysical consequences.

edit

 

[stevevw]

Gods! You forgot gods.

As far as I know gods or God is not a paranormal activity. I have never seen it included in the many things mentioned about paranormal activity.

But its interesting that more than 2/3 of the US believe in paranormal activities. It seems it has become a very popular thing with all the Hollywood movies coming out. Many people believe in UFOs and aliens as well. I think those who have strong beliefs in God tend not to believe in things like aliens and ghosts. But what it does show is the majority of people believe in things beyond what we see and the science.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-briggs/paranormal-is-the-new-nor_b_818614.html?ir=Australia

No.

Yet the activity would rival any paranormal or supernatural activity. How does an entangled particle affect another at an instance faster than the speed of light even if its on the opposite sides of the universe.

 

[ecco]

The way I see it is like a framework. The universe is balanced on the framework of the brain, and you affect the universe with evey single cognitive action. And thought and deed.

The above is an example of belief in the paranormal.

How so, every event has a consequence, thoughts are events...

I think a lot of things. Not all my thoughts lead to deeds.

The thoughts, in and of themselves, do no affect the universe. If you disagree, then you have to show how/why thoughts affect the universe.

Point in time A.
Point in time B.

I paused between writing "Point in time A." and writing "Point in time B." Between writing those two statements, I intentionally thought of something unrelated to this thread. Please show how those thoughts affected the universe (without resorting to a paranormal explanation).

 

[ecco]

As far as I know gods or God is not a paranormal activity. I have never seen it included in the many things mentioned about paranormal activity.

I tend to dump paranormal and supernatural into the same bucket of s(tuff).

Yet the activity would rival any paranormal or supernatural activity. How does an entangled particle affect another at an instance faster than the speed of light even if its on the opposite sides of the universe.

Heck, we haven't even figured out how gravity works. I gotta go with Einstein on this - spooky.

Nevertheless, with the best equipment we have available at this time, it seems to be reality.

The best equipment we have available at this time shows no support for telekinesis or gods.

 

[stevevw]

I tend to dump paranormal and supernatural into the same bucket of s(tuff)

fair enough.

Heck, we haven't even figured out how gravity works. I gotta go with Einstein on this - spooky.

Yeah Einstein didn't like some of the results of quantum physics. It defied his calculations. But another great physicist Niels Bohr supported the probabilistic and counter-intuitive theory of quantum particles. They still havnt found a uniting theory of linking gravity to the quantum world. But the fact is each theory describes the big and small worlds beautifully and both are proven. But even gravity seems magical. We can understand the results of gravity and how it works applied to certain situations. But we dont really know its place in the scheme f things. How do large bits of matter seemingly float around in space and keep themselves in place. There isn't enough matter in our universe for gravity alone to be the only force. So maybe there is other unknown forces that are beyond our understanding.

Nevertheless, with the best equipment we have available at this time, it seems to be reality.

The best equipment we have available at this time shows no support for telekinesis or gods.[/quote]
Yet the actions of spooky action defy what conventional physics says can happen. So something beyond what we consider is ordinary is happening. Who says we cant work out how to tap into this which may be the basis for something that can defy our conventional ways of doing things. Maybe its the type of equipment and the way we are measuring things that is wrong to begin with. The following article is about quantum data teleporting. Who says that this is not the first steps towards matter teleporting.
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...-new-record-teleporting-quantum-data-60-miles

If you look at the placebo effect if can cause the mind to overcome extraordinary circumstances. Mind over matter allows people to block out pain without any pain killers. There have been some amazing feats done with mind over matter such as how people survive extraordinary events. So there is definitely some power in these things and there may be something we havnt worked out yest that can be used to control the material world. I believe its not just all about biology and chemicals controlling everything. There is more to life than just what we see.[/QUOTE]

 

[ecco]

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/214815-scientists-set-new-record-teleporting-quantum-data-60-miles

Thanks for the interesting link.

There is more to life than just what we see.

Indeed.