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Featured Nonresistance as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Bible Highlighter, Nov 19, 2016.

  1. Hank77

    Hank77 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It is always advisable to read the post a response is to.
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." (2 Timothy 3:12).


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  3. real tree

    real tree Member

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    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  4. real tree

    real tree Member

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    Matthew 5:17-20
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  5. real tree

    real tree Member

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    All cops are unbelievers, I dont think so.
     
  6. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    Yeah. Nobody has the right to demand you be a martyr. The use of force can be a legitimate vocation, and to say pacifism is the only choice is confusing Law and Gospel.
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    When I say unbelieving ministers I am saying that the majority of the police and military are not believing and following Jesus exactly like the disciples did. I am saying these organizations are not ultimately Christian in nature and making a pledge to follow Jesus. While there are people who accepted Christ as a policeman or as a soldier, I believe God will try to lead them out of these kinds of professions because these organizations will make them do things that are contrary to Christ's teachings. For when somebody is going against Christ's teachings, they are not believing entirely what Jesus is trying to say to them. While they may not be an unbeliever per say, they are also not totally believing in all the words of Jesus, though.


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  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    So you offer animal sacrifices still and eat only clean animals?

    Also, the Law and the Prophets would also include the books on prophecy or the prophetic books from the OT. Many of these prophecies have yet to be fulfilled. But Jesus had fulfilled the OT law upon the cross. This is why the temple veil was ripped from top to bottom. The animal sacrifices are no longer acceptable. Jesus is our perfect sacrifice. As for the Commandments Jesus is talking about: He is referring to the New Testament Commands He just gave on the sermon on the Mount. For if the Old Law was still binding then Paul would not say, "if you be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2). This would not make any sense for Paul to say this if the Old Law was still binding (whereby circumcision was a requirement - See Genesis 17:14).


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    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  9. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    The Sermon on the Mount, when applied to a believer, is more of an invitation, not a commandment. There is a subtle difference. This is the stuff in the middle ages, or in the Catholic Church, that was and is called "The Evangelical Counsels". Good ideals to practice but not something necessarily that is forced on people.
     
  10. real tree

    real tree Member

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    Not trying to get of topic here, but do you feel that Christians should vote for those in charge of those organisations.
     
  11. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    No. Voluntary Voting is a part of the world system and it is not a part of the Kingdom of God. Granted, if a law does not conflict with God's laws then we are to obey because it is required of us. But to voluntarily actively seek out to take part in a nation's ways (When God does not call us to do so) is nowhere taught in Scripture.


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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  12. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus was critical of those who taught an unjust law,

    Luke 11 (World English Bible):
    Woes to Pharisees and Experts in Law

    37Now as he spoke, a certain Pharisee asked him to dine with him. He went in, and sat at the table. 38When the Pharisee saw it, he marveled that he had not first washed himself before dinner. 39The Lord said to him, "Now you Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter, but your inward part is full of extortion and wickedness. 40You foolish ones, didn't he who made the outside make the inside also? 41But give for gifts to the needy those things which are within, and behold, all things will be clean to you.

    42But woe to you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and rue and every herb, but you bypass justice and the love of God. You ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. 43Woe to you Pharisees! For you love the best seats in the synagogues, and the greetings in the marketplaces. 44Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like hidden graves, and the men who walk over them don't know it."

    45One of the lawyers answered him, "Teacher, in saying this you insult us also." 46He said, "Woe to you lawyers also! For you load men with burdens that are difficult to carry, and you yourselves won't even lift one finger to help carry those burdens. 47Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. 48So you testify and consent to the works of your fathers. For they killed them, and you build their tombs. 49Therefore also the wisdom of God said, 'I will send to them prophets and apostles; and some of them they will kill and persecute, 50that the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zachariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary.' Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. 52Woe to you lawyers! For you took away the key of knowledge. You didn't enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in, you hindered."
     
  13. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    What about our duty to love our neighbor? Are our fellow citizens not our neighbors?
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Love can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. Some people immediately hear the word "love" and they think that it is talking about to love people romantically. However, God's Word tells us how we are to love our neighbor. To go outside of God's Word in how we define love is dangerous. For you can think that love for your leaders of this nation is to vote for them. But that is not loving them. That would be supporting them regardless of the evil that you know they may do. For no politician is going to support everything that is supported by the Bible. In fact, there are many things that politicians do that go against the Bible. To support them is to be in league with even their evil deeds. We cannot pick and choose what we like about a person. Do we support the devil just because he may appear to do something loving (as a part of his deceptive tactics)? Surely not. In other words, by their fruits you will know them.


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  15. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    It's obvious reading the Bible that love has to do with caring about the material and physical welfare of men and women created in the image of God, ensuring they are treated justly. You can't do this without government of some kind, and the necessary rule of law. Therefore, participating in government can be a godly vocation.

    We should love our neighbor and vote for politicians who will represent their interests and look out for their welfare. It the context of my church, the role of government is seen as promoting justice, good order, and human flourishing. In a democracy, we are to work for politicians who will create and uphold just laws.

    I find it curious you have criticized me in the past, frankly, for being antinomian and not believing in good works. But here you are using your religion to reject many good works that are needful. Jesus had harsh words to say about this kind of use of God's Word (Matthew 15:1-20)
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  16. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    People who are clearly not Antinomian would never give anyone a reason to think that they are Antinomian. By what you said you led me to believe you are Antinomian.
    Are you not Antinomian?
    If not, then please explain.

    Anyways, there is a Godly way of loving and there is a worldly way of loving. For Jesus said, "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children," (Matthew 7:11). Meaning, the wicked can do loving things. Jesus also said let the dead bury their own dead. If one is loving according to God's ways instead of by the world's ways, they are fulfilling a greater purpose and plan according to God's Kingdom by faith instead of doing what we feel is good and right in our eyes.

    For example:

    Should I build an Iron Man suit and convince the government that I should fight crime, and help to save innocent lives? Would God want me to do that? Surely not. For we walk by faith and not by sight. We fight an unseen battle or war and not a physical one with armored suits and or magical hammers.



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    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    What does God's Word say to do? Should we not follow God's way instead of our own way?


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  18. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    I'm Lutheran. Which means in this context there are things we should do, but we don't, because we are sinners. Still, we can, with God's help, do some of them for the good of our neighbor, as part of our calling or vocation. We believe in the "New Obedience", though we do not believe in sinlessness in this life, even for believers.

    I think the sticking point is that you seem to not have an augustinian anthropology or doctrine of sin.

    I do not believe this as a Lutheran. It is a confusion of Law and Gospel and the left-hand and right-hand reign of God in the world. There is no special Christian way of being loving. The moral law of God is written on every human heart, and is available as ones conscience. The issue is not a lack of knowledge of God's law, but a lack of strength and will on our part.

    We Lutherans tend to have a view of Christ and culture that doesn't view the world as completely evil. What Reinhold Niebuhr called "Christ and Culture". There is a civic form of righteousness that is good, without necessarily being Christian. It does not merit salvation but it is a temporal good and is part of God's providential care and love for the world. In a sinful world that has yet to see the fullness of redemption, human vocations, including ones that use force, are part of this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  19. Bollweevil

    Bollweevil Newbie

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    Jason - Excellent explanation. The frustrating thing about discussing this with those that oppose it, they do not have scriptures to prove their points. They may use 2 or 3 and they are usually misunderstood. God is so clear on this matter with numerous verses. I'm encouraged by you, a fellow believer.
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Thank you. I am glad to hear that.
    But all the glory goes to GOD of course.
    He was the One who showed me all of the verses.
    Nonresistance taught by Jesus has it's roots in faith.
    I am trusting God and that He is sovereign to protect me or not.
    Whether, I live, die, or suffer, let it all be to the glory of Christ.
    Sometimes it is not easy to turn the other cheek.
    Many times we may want justice and we want to point out people's wrongs.
    It is a daily struggle. But we must love, pray, and do good unto them (no matter what).


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    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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