Non-traditionalists - start your own offshoots

[woobadooba]

Yeeesssss my master (hum ha hum ha hum ha)

How old are you?

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Tall--as i said--it's been studied--and I agree with it-I have no desire to go over that long road again in this forum--I've done it before!

Again--if you don't like our doctrines--move on! If you hate this church so much--as you seem to do--then leave it and us alone. We are TIRED of your constant bashing.

The reason we stay is because we do care for the SDA church, not because we hate it. That is also the reason the Worldwide Church of God changed also. Their leadership did not hate their church they loved the church and wanted it to stand for truth even over tradtion.

The funny thing is the IJ has greatly changed already, even the understanding of Ellen White has greatly changed. So there is certainly hope.

 

[NightEternal]

I see the demonization of others by the TSDA's hasn't waned much since my return from vacation. The fundamentalists never fail to dissapoint if nothing else.

No, there will never be unity between Progressives, Liberals, Evangelicals and the right wing. The standpoints they are coming from are light years apart and it is impossible. The fundamental foundation the TSDA"s have built thier salvation theology on is corrupted and reeks of Rome.

As for starting another branch of Adventism, the church I belong to has pretty much already done that, but we are not an offshoot. We are still under the umbrella of the official denomination. The admin does not bother us because of the tithe$$$$$ we bring in.

There are several local SDA churches around Europe, Australia and Southern California who have been doing this for years. I find it quite humerous to read the grand, bellicose claims of the fundamentalist blowhards as they prophecy the inevitable and complete fall of Adventism if the IJ is rejected. They seem oblivious to the fact that many, many Adventists have done just that years ago and thier Adventism is thriving better than ever. Some have twenty or more years under thier belt. So Adventist life does indeed go on after the IJ, contrary to what the doomsayers might have you believe.

We are not waiting for anyone else, we are going forward with the Reformation gospel and flying the banner of justification by faith high without the perfectionist refuse that pollutes mainline Adventism. It is happening on a larger scale every year. Those who still wish to cling to Uriah Smith's process theology can beat themselves blind trying to become perfect this side of Heaven (with Christ's indwelling power of course!) and fall in and out of salvation, depending on the mood of thier tyrannical, petulant god. Meanwhile, we who rest in the perfection of Christ will rejoice in our assurance of salvation unapologetically and bring Good News to the world and our ranks will increase as the unchurched world sees what Adventism can truly offer them: A religion where it is all about Him and the focus is on Christ, not ourselves. My church alone will reach 2000 members by the end of the year if things go on the way they have been.

No, we aren't going anywhere, and the TSDA's can throw all the temper tantrums they want. Thier bully tactics and fear mongering are wasted on those who want change, but we will leave them to rant, hufff and puff for the sheer entertainment value if nothing else. It reminds me of the faces of the Pharisees turning red with rage as they plug thier ears against the life giving words of Christ, and pick up stones to silence the radical themes which contradict and shake thier traditional paradigms to the ground.

Make no mistake: The spirit of Rome is alive and well in the hearts of many ultra-conservatives. They would love to slow roast the whole lot of us at the stake with green kindling, relishing the sounds of our screams as the fire purifies us of our supposed theological abberations.

I suppose they will just have to settle for already doing it to us in their hearts, since the Roman inquisitional office of doctrinal purity isn't officially found in Adventism.

We have no agenda to 'take over the church' either. Much as that idea has appeal, we are still outnumbered by the fundamentalists by a great majority. I fear it will be so always. And as Jan Paulsen's speech at the GC revealed, change is not even remotely close to coming on an official level. The best we can do is work for change within our own spheres of influence and try to bring as much Gospel sanity to the church as possible. As this forum has revealed, the majority will reject it, but the few that do accept will be worth the effort.

The TSDA's are so closed-minded and stuck in thier tradition, one might have better luck emptying the ocean with a teaspoon than to turn the SDATitanic around from it's trajectory course into the glacier of irrelevancy and heterodox oblivion.

 

[tall73]

Tall--as i said--it's been studied--and I agree with it-I have no desire to go over that long road again in this forum--I've done it before!

So I take it that you have not read the documents I asked about?

Please show me the posts where you addressed my questions.

Again--if you don't like our doctrines--move on! If you hate this church so much--as you seem to do--then leave it and us alone. We are TIRED of your constant bashing.

I pastor in the church, grew up in the church, and found Jesus and salvation in the church. Please explain how I hate it. Until recent times I had no issue with the IJ and taught it myself. But now that I am asking questions I find out that

a. there is no "verbal link" as admitted by our scholars, between Daniel 8:14 and Leviticus 16
b. there is no clear text that even shows tranfer of sin to the sanctuary.
c Jesus went into the Most Holy Place as even now many of our scholars admit, in direct contradiction to Ellen White. They have to admit it because Hebrews makes it clear.


So, again, if you want to answer my questions then I will show you the thread we are discussing it in. Otherwise stop telling me I hate the church and am bashing. You have no basis for your claims. I do not hate the church, nor do I want to leave. But I do want my church to address this doctrine which has been questioned thoughout our history due to lack of biblical evidence.

 

[NightEternal]

Tall, it is futile, you might as well move on to someone else. People like honorthesabbath have written you off long ago as an apostate pastor because of one single doctrine. It's Ford and Ballenger all over again. There is no rationale to it. The issues will not be squarely faced and no quarter will be given to any evidence provided. Reason has gone out the window and emotional, blind denominational patriotism has taken over. They don't care about the life-changing decision you are facing or the emotional trumoil you are going through. They just want thier pound of doctrinal flesh.

FWIW, I admire your integrity. I know many pastors who hold to thier beliefs privately concerning the IJ and just never preach on it. That does not seem like a viable option for you.

Come what may, I fully believe you and Sophia7 will be all right. The Lord has you in the palm of His hand and He will not let you go, no matter where this uncertain journey takes you.

 

[NightEternal]

It is interesting that in reading all of the exchanges going back and forth on the forum, I have not seen one single Conservative ever be told to get out of the church or charged with not being an Adventist by any of the Evangelicals, Progressives and Liberals. Not one.

These cries come exclusively from one side only.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Tall73

If the Lord had not told me 2 years ago the journey I would be afraid right now. you have convinced me of many things. I don't know what the future holds but the Lord holds the future. Hey maybe it's time to start a new denomination?

 

[honorthesabbath]

So I take it that you have not read the documents I asked about?

Please show me the posts where you addressed my questions.

I pastor in the church, grew up in the church, and found Jesus and salvation in the church. Please explain how I hate it. Until recent times I had no issue with the IJ and taught it myself. But now that I am asking questions I find out that

a. there is no "verbal link" as admitted by our scholars, between Daniel 8:14 and Leviticus 16
b. there is no clear text that even shows tranfer of sin to the sanctuary.
c Jesus went into the Most Holy Place as even now many of our scholars admit, in direct contradiction to Ellen White. They have to admit it because Hebrews makes it clear.


So, again, if you want to answer my questions then I will show you the thread we are discussing it in. Otherwise stop telling me I hate the church and am bashing. You have no basis for your claims. I do not hate the church, nor do I want to leave. But I do want my church to address this doctrine which has been questioned thoughout our history due to lack of biblical evidence.

Tall--ever read the book "Creeping Compromise"? If not--you should because that's what the 'offshoots' have done! Go ahead--bend to the will of the world so you don't look 'different'!!

 

[reddogs]

But where would that lead......there is only one truth, God's truth and all who turn from it will set themselves on a path to deception which leads to eternal death...


The only question is who follows Gods truth as given in His word, all other roads lead away from God, His Son and eternal life.......

 

[Your Neighbor]

Besides Moe, Larry, & Curly, what intelligent being would stay in a denomination that has a prophet that has "salvation theology" which is "corrupted and reeks of Rome"?

 

[Your Neighbor]

Wait a minute. I have an answer to my own question:

 

[reddogs]

Besides Moe, Larry, & Curly, what intelligent being would stay in a denomination that has a prophet that has "salvation theology" which is "corrupted and reeks of Rome"?
/quote]

You have shown your hand as a siren of evil destruction, calling for the shipwreck of a good church on the rocks of dissension, now go on your way to your master and let God guide those that He will through the rough seas ahead to eternal life....

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Besides Moe, Larry, & Curly, what intelligent being would stay in a denomination that has a prophet that has "salvation theology" which is "corrupted and reeks of Rome"?
/quote]

You have shown your hand as a siren of evil destruction, calling for the shipwreck of a good church on the rocks of dissension, now go on your way to your master and let God guide those that He will through the rough seas ahead to eternal life....

propaganda

 

[reddogs]

propaganda

At the end we shall all see what is true, and what is not.....

 

[tall73]

Tall--ever read the book "Creeping Compromise"? If not--you should because that's what the 'offshoots' have done! Go ahead--bend to the will of the world so you don't look 'different'!!

Yes I have read it.

I already told you once I didn't mind being different and certainly would not have been an Adventist pastor if I did.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

At the end we shall all see what is true, and what is not.....

yes ,AT THE END

 

[reddogs]

yes ,AT THE END

God will take care of those that love Him and follow what He sets forth.........

 

[Adventist Dissident]

but you don't have the truth. that is why you are in trouble.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Besides Moe, Larry, & Curly, what intelligent being would stay in a denomination that has a prophet that has "salvation theology" which is "corrupted and reeks of Rome"?

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[reddogs]

but you don't have the truth. that is why you are in trouble.

God's word says otherwise......and if the church and its members stay in harmony with it, God will keep his protecting and guiding hand on it through all the rocks and dangers till safe harbor........