Non-Lutheran Godparents/Sponsors for Baptism?

[Lexloci90]

Hello all,

To what extent can a non-LCMS person serve as a sponsor or Godparent at Baptism?

I understand this is a “law” question, but would appreciate hearing from others. Sort of an unusual situation of 2 converts so not a lot of options.

 

[Athanasius377]

Hello,
I'm glad you are going to be part of a baptism. I'm afraid I don't understand your question .Are you and someone else being baptized or are you and someone else the sponsoring Godparents?

 

[Lexloci90]

Sorry for being unclear. My child’s Baptism, my wife and I both being LCMS converts. We don’t really know a lot of other Lutherans (recently moved). The person who I would want to be the child’s Godfather is RCC so has a (near identical) understanding of Baptism and when we talked he would honor my wishes to see my child attends a Lutheran Church if anything happened to me.

 

[AMM]

I was baptized in the ELCA (although my parents were and are members of the LCMS). However, my godmother (my aunt) was Catholic and my godfather (her husband, my uncle) was LCMS. So there's at least some leniency.

Eventually he converted to RCC, and I to Orthodoxy, but that's another story

 

[URA]

I suppose asking your priest would be a good place to start.

 

[Lexloci90]

Given I’m Lutheran (LCMS), we have Pastors, not Priests.

 

[URA]

Given I’m Lutheran (LCMS), we have Pastors, not Priests.

Whoops. Well, then, ask your pastor.

 

[AMM]

Given I’m Lutheran (LCMS), we have Pastors, not Priests.

FWIW, that's a modern day American thing, not a historic Lutheran thing. The Lutheran confessions (the Book of Concord) uses the term "priest" in reference to Lutheran clergy on multiple occasions.

"But the bishops either compel our priests to reject and condemn this kind of doctrine which we have confessed, or, by a new and unheard-of cruelty, they put to death the poor innocent men. These causes hinder our priests from acknowledging such bishops." (Defense of the Augsburg Confession, Article XIV)

It's mostly semantics and how you understand the terms

 

[Lexloci90]

I suppose asking your priest would be a good place to start.

Whoops. Well, then, ask your pastor.

Makes sense, thanks. I will speak with him but I’m trying to figure if this is even an option before I bring it up.

 

[URA]

Makes sense, thanks. I will speak with him but I’m trying to figure if this is even an option before I bring it up.

Near as I can tell, bringing it up is the best way to find out if this is an option!

 

[Lexloci90]

FWIW, that's a modern day American thing, not a historic Lutheran thing. The Lutheran confessions (the Book of Concord) uses the term "priest" in reference to Lutheran clergy on multiple occasions.

"But the bishops either compel our priests to reject and condemn this kind of doctrine which we have confessed, or, by a new and unheard-of cruelty, they put to death the poor innocent men. These causes hinder our priests from acknowledging such bishops." (Defense of the Augsburg Confession, Article XIV)

It's mostly semantics and how you understand the terms

Interesting. I understand a “Priest” to be offering a sacrifice which is why I avoid that term.

 

[Athanasius377]

Hmm . There's more to talk about than what can be dealt with on a forum .I would talk to your pastor and ask him why. There are more differences in our understanding of baptism with RCC than is readily apparent. I would also mention that my daughter was baptized Anglican. Her Godparents were not Anglican and as a result caused no short of consternation when it came to Anglican distinctives . My wife have since converted to LCMS lutheran and have had to allow for Pastor educate my daughter in the Lutheran faith as a result . the bottom line is that you will want your child brought up as Lutheran if you and your wife are Lutheran .and that is something a non-Lutheran can do no matter how similar they maybe similar .
Talk with your Pastor and ask him these questions.

I hope this helps. And Congratulations on your conversion and your child's Baptism
Your Pastor is not trying to make your life difficult he's looking out for the care of your family"s collectives souls.

 

[AMM]

Interesting. I understand a “Priest” to be offering a sacrifice which is why I avoid that term.

Understandable. You don't want to say something if your conscience tells you otherwise or if it doesn't feel right to you. But it was just an interesting little thing I learned when I first started learning Lutheran history and wanted to share.

 

[tampasteve]

Aside from the possible religious upbringing questions if you were to pass, I would imagine that the LCMS upper reaches would not be super happy with a Godparent not being LCMS as well - as of right now the LCMS frowns upon even praying with other Christians that are not LCMS or WELS Lutherans. That said, there is a movement to be slightly more open with inter-Christian sharing from the LCMS. However, it would most likely be up to the LCMS pastor to make the final decision. I would run it by your pastor and see his thoughts.

 

[Resha Caner]

... as of right now the LCMS frowns upon even praying with other Christians that are not LCMS or WELS Lutherans ...

I'm not sure what you meant by this comment, but the way it reads is incorrect. You can pray with whomever you please. What the LCMS opposes is an appearance of official sanction or ecumenism. In other words, they don't want a Lutheran pastor praying at a public gathering where a Baha'i priest is talking about how all roads lead to God. It gives the appearance that the Lutheran church agrees with that statement.

With respect to non-Lutheran sponsors at a Baptism: In a theological sense I don't see the point ... or why the sponsor would even want to do it. How can they promise to raise a child in a church they don't belong to? But I do understand the difficulty this creates in terms of family politics. I know that pain very well.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

If Lutherans believe the Gospel is not limited to their particular Church alone but can be found in anyone regardless of the Church they attend, what is the problem if the person being the Sponsor can be said to be believing in the Gospel? This surely allows for a good deal of Protestantism but probably excludes Catholics and Orthodox.

 

[tampasteve]

I'm not sure what you meant by this comment, but the way it reads is incorrect. You can pray with whomever you please. What the LCMS opposes is an appearance of official sanction or ecumenism. In other words, they don't want a Lutheran pastor praying at a public gathering where a Baha'i priest is talking about how all roads lead to God. It gives the appearance that the Lutheran church agrees with that statement.

You are right, I looked back and it was the WELS church that advises to not pray with others, even Christians if they are not in the same fellowship. My apologies for misrepresenting what the LCMS might believe. Here is the WELS statement:
"Question: During the holidays I come into contact with relatives of other denominations. What is the WELS' position on praying with them? For example, at a Catholic sister's home they want to say grace before the meal. Are we not part of the "whole Christian church on earth"?
Answer:
......When there is not unity of faith among people and the churches to which they belong, God instructs us to not practice religious fellowship with them (Romans 16:17-18; 2 John 10-11). That includes not praying with them.....

With respect to non-Lutheran sponsors at a Baptism: In a theological sense I don't see the point ... or why the sponsor would even want to do it. How can they promise to raise a child in a church they don't belong to?

Many would agree to do so out of a duty to the deceased. Especially if it were a similar confession to the LCMS church. But likely you are right, many people would not want to comit out of their own convictions, which would be fine if that is what they stood for.

But I do understand the difficulty this creates in terms of family politics. I know that pain very well.

Indeed, it can be difficult and hurtful, but we all must follow the path that we believe God holds for us.

 

[Resha Caner]

If Lutherans believe the Gospel is not limited to their particular Church alone but can be found in anyone regardless of the Church they attend, what is the problem if the person being the Sponsor can be said to be believing in the Gospel? This surely allows for a good deal of Protestantism but probably excludes Catholics and Orthodox.

It's a difference between the internal and the external - between judging someone's soul and judging someone's behavior and professed beliefs. Lutherans believe judging the soul is God's domain, and we, as humans, have no part in that. It is not our place to render a verdict on whether or not someone is saved. But we can observe behavior and professions of faith. If someone professes a belief that is at odds with the Lutheran Confessions, why should we expect that person to properly represent the Lutheran Confessions to their godchild?

Or, yet again, it is a difference between perfect and best. I don't think the Lutheran church is perfect, but I think it best represents the Gospel message. If I thought some other church was better, I'd join that church instead. It doesn't mean I think the souls at those other churches are damned. I just don't think they present the Gospel as well as the Lutheran church does. So, if a parent thinks the Lutheran church presents the Gospel the best, why would they ask a different church to present the Gospel to their child if they are unable?

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

It's a difference between the internal and the external - between judging someone's soul and judging someone's behavior and professed beliefs. Lutherans believe judging the soul is God's domain, and we, as humans, have no part in that. It is not our place to render a verdict on whether or not someone is saved. But we can observe behavior and professions of faith. If someone professes a belief that is at odds with the Lutheran Confessions, why should we expect that person to properly represent the Lutheran Confessions to their godchild?

Or, yet again, it is a difference between perfect and best. I don't think the Lutheran church is perfect, but I think it best represents the Gospel message. If I thought some other church was better, I'd join that church instead. It doesn't mean I think the souls at those other churches are damned. I just don't think they present the Gospel as well as the Lutheran church does. So, if a parent thinks the Lutheran church presents the Gospel the best, why would they ask a different church to present the Gospel to their child if they are unable?

This sounds like a remarkably Catholic or Orthodox position concerning the unique nature of the Church. I was under the impression Lutherans didn't view their Church as the one true Church but rather a Church among many.

Is it the Lutheran position that the Gospel is found only in (or majority in) their particular Church?

 

[Resha Caner]

Is it the Lutheran position that the Gospel is found only in (or majority in) their particular Church?

First, I can't claim to speak for the whole Lutheran church.

But I would say, no, that is not the Lutheran position. Again, that makes the whole thing binary: it either is or isn't - it's perfect or it's not - God is here but not there.

I think of it in engineering terms as a signal (specifically, like Shannon's Law). Some signals have more noise than others. The Lutheran signal has the least amount of noise. So, suppose I want to watch the Super Bowl, and the picture on my TV, while it has a few flaws, is pretty good. My neighbor is also watching the Super Bowl on his TV, but his picture is fuzzy, jumps around, freezes, and cuts in and out. We'll probably both know the final score of the game, but I'd rather watch on my much clearer TV.

With that said, you shouldn't be surprised if a Lutheran occasionally sounds Catholic, Orthodox, or Anglican. We're closer to those denominations than we are to most Protestants.