Non denominational?

[Mountainmike]

Make sure you don't throw out babies with bath Water!

Study what the first generation Christians were taught, since - as Paul says - " truth" faith was handed down by " tradition " a word now confused with the colloquial meaning, but then, as used by paul it means paradosis " handing down of the deposit of faith". The New Testament still way in the future.

So study such as ignatius to smyrneans, he and polycarp disciples of John the apostle and their faith taught by him, see what the early church was.


You see a liturgical, sacramental church in which a valid Eucharist could only be performed by appointed succession bishops or their appointees and was the real presence , the " foundation of truth" was the church.

See also how the early church was empowered to " bind and loose " - that is pronounce on correct interpretation of doctrine which it did in councils of succession bishops. without which you would not have a New Testament or creed . Those councils that chose your New Testament and creed accepted the " primacy of honour" of the pope.

RCC and orthodox until they split away are not denominations, they are the continuation of that early church.

Denominations came later fuelled by the erroneous belief of sola scriptura, in which all get to decide their own interpretation , so schism with monotonous regularity, because the reformation ditched Jesus' appointed authority of the church to pronounce in doctrine, so a mass of conflicting interpretations on all aspects of doctrine flourished,

How does Non denomination fit that history? Can your church point at unbroken succession of bishops back to the apostles, none renouncing the church authority, performing a Eucharist of the real presence? If not you are barking up the wrong tree.

Was on another thread about denominations and was going to post what I wrote below but realised it would be off topic so guess I'm starting a thread.
Is anyone else non-denominational but attending a denominational church? What makes you so?

I think all denominations probably have it wrong. I don't see any of us living the life of the early church. I think we are all of the world too much and we should all gear ourselves towards becoming more active in the community, spreading the gospel, helping each other more and actually serving. Those who can. Those who can't should be doing what they can... prayer is an important ministry too.

I think its time we should all be measuring ourselves against scripture and walking the way Jesus said. The money we have been given from God for example, we should start thinking how we can put it to God's service instead of our own. This is what I feel is important, not denominations, not debating creation etc.

I'm not there yet but making changes to go in that direction. I think as soon as I have means to be child free sometimes I plan to use it immediately to get into some way of service.

 

[Sam91]

Make sure you don't throw out babies with bath Water!

Study what the first generation Christians were taught, since aspall says faith was handed down by " tradition " a word now confused with the colloquial meaning, but then, as used by paul it means paradosis " handing down of the deposit of faith". The New Testament still way in the future.

So study such as ignatius to smyrneans, he and polycarp disciples of John the apostle and their faith taught by him.
You see a liturgical, sacramental church in which a valid Eucharist could only be performed by appointed succession bishops or their appointees and was the real presence , the " foundation of truth" was the church.


See also how the early church was empowered to " bind and loose " on doctrine which it did in councils of succession bishops. without which you would not have a New Testament or creed .

RCC and orthodox until they split away are not denominations, they are the continuation of early church.
Denominations came later fuelled by the erroneous belief of sola scriptura, in which all get to decide their own interpretation so schism with monotonous regularity, because the reformationditched Jesus' appointed authority of the church to pronounce in doctrine,

How does Non denomination fit that history?

Oh I agree with your initial statement.
I go to a denominational church as a safeguard and am heartened to see that this new church has an ethos of Church discipline etc. I am going to get a pastoral visit, been attending a few weeks at this church, and hope to see a benefit in that. My last church left us all alone to much and I brought up to tge old church that I'd like discipled a little. I don't want a lack of guidance, however it does need to match up to scripture.

I bought books on early church writers and Iraneus. However, haven't read them.. I read Clements epistle and stopped. Was researching the early church after researching the apostles but stopped. Kept the books though. That will be for when I am more mature in the Lord. The Lord must have given me Proverbs 3:5-6 for a reason. I will trust that in inspiring which books were classed as Canon He has given the entirity of what we need to know in order for Him to be revealed to His children 2000 years later. Enough to warn us of heresies that man has introduced. Abraham had enough knowledge to be classed as righteous through his faith. David had the heart at which God saw 'fit' for want of a better word.
I have not seen someone in the bible commended for knowledge. Well I have, Solomon for example but He was led astray. Paul dismissed it as not worth boasting of and he a big sinner through it. I guess I mean I see fait and actions emphasised above it. Psalm 119 is amongst one of my favourite Psalms though.

For myself, I feel it's to trust in Him and He will lead me right if I obey His commands with all humility and faithfulness. I love His word, I thirst for it and always did.

 

[Sam91]

Oh I agree with your initial statement.
I go to a denominational church as a safeguard and am heartened to see that this new church has an ethos of Church discipline etc. I am going to get a pastoral visit, been attending a few weeks at this church, and hope to see a benefit in that. My last church left us all alone to much and I brought up to tge old church that I'd like discipled a little. I don't want a lack of guidance, however it does need to match up to scripture.

I bought books on early church writers and Iraneus. However, haven't read them.. I read Clements epistle and stopped. Was researching the early church after researching the apostles but stopped. Kept the books though. That will be for when I am more mature in the Lord. The Lord must have given me Proverbs 3:5-6 for a reason. I will trust that in inspiring which books were classed as Canon He has given the entirity of what we need to know in order for Him to be revealed to His children 2000 years later. Enough to warn us of heresies that man has introduced. Abraham had enough knowledge to be classed as righteous through his faith. David had the heart at which God saw 'fit' for want of a better word.
I have not seen someone in the bible commended for knowledge. Well I have, Solomon for example but He was led astray. Paul dismissed it as not worth boasting of and he a big sinner through it. I guess I mean I see fait and actions emphasised above it. Psalm 119 is amongst one of my favourite Psalms though.

For myself, I feel it's to trust in Him and He will lead me right if I obey His commands with all humility and faithfulness. I love His word, I thirst for it and always did.

Enoch didn't have a wealth of scripture, he was blessed to walk with God. A look at Hebrews 11 shows us what to do and thank our God that Jesus did what He did in order to reconcile us to God through His sacrifice. That God can dwell in our hearts and lead us into understanding. That in 1John he says that He will teach us. We are so so blessed. God is so great.

 

[Ray Blick]

Mark 14:7
The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.

Yes, and Jesus ascended to the right hand side of the Father and so He expects us to help the poor now doesn't he?

 

[Saint Beloved]

Yes, and Jesus ascended to the right hand side of the Father and so He expects us to help the poor now doesn't he?

Hello Ray having a good day?
Of course He does!
I posted that to reassure Sam that the poor will always exist as Christ said and only Christ Himself coming again will end that not us on our efforts. To alliviate what we can while we can in our limited power.

 

[Daniel9v9]

I don't think anyone understood my idea of the early church. I was talking about their heart. The way they loved people they hadn't met. Philippians 4:22. I guess we do this when praying for persecuted christians.

The way they lived more closely and intruded into others lives a little more. Cornelius' house and that time Paul preached and Euticus fell out the window. People willing to hear when inconvenient.

But I was talking more about Jesus teachings. About giving that extra coat to a brother. Thinking about whether really need these posessions and using the finances instead to advance the kingdom of God. I don't think that extra money should be given to the church, money tends to lead to corruption. I think it should be used where need is seen in daily life to help individuals see God's love in us. We have been given the grace to have the ability to earn it or have it, why not use it wisely to help those who wouldn't get blessed by a charity but to help those we know have need, who know its through our love of God.

Jesus saying about giving up everything to follow him and the parable about finding the kingdom of God and buying the field it's in.

I was talking not on how the Church works but on how we as individuals within that unit could step up more to be involved and do more at work, schools and in the community.

A lot of this is wistful and naive. Some is frustration of wanting to do more but not in a position to serve as my children are always with me. But a big part of it is Revelation 3-4. I was sobbing when I read it again in March. I was hit by Jesus' perfect love, righteousness and justness. The commendations and admonishions He had for the 7 churches. I don't think about the epistles persay when I think of the early church. I think of the people who knew Jesus on Earth and those who met the apostles who knew Him and grasped the meaning of what He said and their lives changed significantly.

But the thread was to not debate that... I'm a novice at forums still. It was to gain an understanding of what non denominational meant to others. I just did it wrong. Still haven't understood that fully. I'm thinking I might just swap how I self-identify to Baptist, non denominational doesn't mean what I thought it did.
Which is Christ is where I am affiliated more than to what Church another person goes to. (As in that someone being a Christian is enough to make them my brother, maybe a wayward one, needing prayer and disillusioned with God's guidance). I do think that all the divisions are wrong but don't want Churches all to merge as I couldn't accept all doctrines, only Christ and that my identity in Him is stronger than my trust in man made theology.

I don't think where you're coming from is "wistful and naive"; Seems to me it's a genuine desire to do the Lord's will, which is good! We are not called to be served, but to serve - following the example set before us in our Lord Jesus Christ, the author and perfecter of our faith. I think we all would be wise to remember this, and act accordingly in increasing measure, with faith and strength firmly rooted in the Lord.

 

[Sam91]

Hello Ray having a good day?
Of course He does!
I posted that to reassure Sam that the poor will always exist as Christ said and only Christ Himself coming again will end that not us on our efforts. To alliviate what we can while we can in our limited power.

And I having spoken to Saint Beloved at some length was able to grasp what she was saying and draw comfort without much needing said. Maybe I should have replied in more detail to her on here though.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Was on another thread about denominations and was going to post what I wrote below but realised it would be off topic so guess I'm starting a thread.
Is anyone else non-denominational but attending a denominational church? What makes you so?

I think all denominations probably have it wrong. I don't see any of us living the life of the early church. I think we are all of the world too much and we should all gear ourselves towards becoming more active in the community, spreading the gospel, helping each other more and actually serving. Those who can. Those who can't should be doing what they can... prayer is an important ministry too.

I think its time we should all be measuring ourselves against scripture and walking the way Jesus said. The money we have been given from God for example, we should start thinking how we can put it to God's service instead of our own. This is what I feel is important, not denominations, not debating creation etc.

I'm not there yet but making changes to go in that direction. I think as soon as I have means to be child free sometimes I plan to use it immediately to get into some way of service.

Which early church would you recommend? The Corinthian church? They were a wild lot.What about the Galatians church? Paul didn't have much good to say about them. . .

I think that there can be a romanticized version of the "early church" dancing around in people's heads that is not based in reality.

Also, "non-denominational" IS a denomination. Visit any non-denom church and see just how similar they are. They have a liturgy. It's just an informal one. They have a doctrinal statement, which is always Arminian (or Pelagian) in soteriology. They all practice creedo-baptism. They have similar music. . . They are a denomination.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Most often, non denominational refers to an association to premillennial dispensationalist seminaries in that the graduates become the pastors.

Yes.

 

[Sam91]

Which early church would you recommend? The Corinthian church? They were a wild lot.What about the Galatians church? Paul didn't have much good to say about them. . .

I think that there can be a romanticized version of the "early church" dancing around in people's heads that is not based in reality.

Also, "non-denominational" IS a denomination. Visit any non-denom church and see just how similar they are. They have a liturgy. It's just an informal one. They have a doctrinal statement, which is always Arminian (or Pelagian) in soteriology. They all practice creedo-baptism. They have similar music. . . They are a denomination.

Philedelphia

I was asking people who classed themselves non denominational but go to a denominational church why the call themselves so. I classed myself as non denominational even though I attend denominational churches.

My trial of a non denominational church only lasted 3 weeks and had to leave before the sermon each Sunday due to my baby/toddler crying inconsolably during the worship. It worried me slightly too as without a reputation of being fairly 'safe' you don't have a idea of what false teaching you may be fed.

I was thinking that most people selected it in their profile because their relationship with Christ is above what denomination church they go to. As in they don't identify as Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, Pentecostal but as a Christian. However, I see there is more to this 'independent' non demoniation church thing than I imagined. I was thinking about on how individuals identify rather than a Church thing.

 

[Mountainmike]

Do read ignatius to smyrneans in particular, both its date and its contents are eye opening, as is the provenance: he and polycarp disciples of John the apostle.

The problem is the New Testament is not a complete manual of Christian belief, nor does it purport to be so, nor did it exist for first Christians, and in any event the faith was passed down by paradosis " handing down" - the current use of the word tradition as paradosis is now translated has altered the meaning from what it meant then.

So ignatius describes a sacramental,church in which Eucharist can only be performed by bishops in succession of apostles or their appointees. Which discounts MOST post reformation churches.

Our Lord promised us " the gates of hell would not prevail against his church" - so it is unthinkable he would allow it to apostasise in the first generation imstructed by the apostles and John in this case, From which you can only conclude ignatius communicates the correct interpretation.

It was study of issues like that that led me back to Rome.

Oh I agree with your initial statement.
I go to a denominational church as a safeguard and am heartened to see that this new church has an ethos of Church discipline etc. I am going to get a pastoral visit, been attending a few weeks at this church, and hope to see a benefit in that. My last church left us all alone to much and I brought up to tge old church that I'd like discipled a little. I don't want a lack of guidance, however it does need to match up to scripture.

I bought books on early church writers and Iraneus. However, haven't read them.. I read Clements epistle and stopped. Was researching the early church after researching the apostles but stopped. Kept the books though. That will be for when I am more mature in the Lord. The Lord must have given me Proverbs 3:5-6 for a reason. I will trust that in inspiring which books were classed as Canon He has given the entirity of what we need to know in order for Him to be revealed to His children 2000 years later. Enough to warn us of heresies that man has introduced. Abraham had enough knowledge to be classed as righteous through his faith. David had the heart at which God saw 'fit' for want of a better word.
I have not seen someone in the bible commended for knowledge. Well I have, Solomon for example but He was led astray. Paul dismissed it as not worth boasting of and he a big sinner through it. I guess I mean I see fait and actions emphasised above it. Psalm 119 is amongst one of my favourite Psalms though.

For myself, I feel it's to trust in Him and He will lead me right if I obey His commands with all humility and faithfulness. I love His word, I thirst for it and always did.

 

[Sam91]

Do read ignatius to smyrneans in particular, both its date and its contents are eye opening, as is the provenance: he and polycarp disciples of John the apostle.

The problem is the New Testament is not a complete manual of Christian belief, nor does it purport to be so, nor did it exist for first Christians, and in any event the faith was passed down by paradosis " handing down" - the current use of the word tradition as paradosis is now translated has altered the meaning.

So a sacramental,church in which Eucharist can only be performed by bishops in succession of apostles or their appointees.

Our Lord promised us " the gates of hell would not prevail against his church" - so it is unthinkable he would allow it to apostasise in the first generation imstructed by apostles. From which you can only conclude ignatius communicates the correct interpretation.

As I said it's for the future. It was reading in wikipedia about polycarp being a disciple of John which made me look for a book. I am fairly sure that it isn't in the Lords will for me to read that yet or I wouldn't have been diverted from my quest for knowledge. But I will enjoy it one day, when the time is right. Lord willing that I live that long. (Thinking 'Do not boast about tomorrow').

 

[Mountainmike]

As I said it's for the future. It was reading in wikipedia about polycarp being a disciple of John which made me look for a book. I am fairly sure that it isn't in the Lords will for me to read that yet or I wouldn't have been diverted from my quest for knowledge. But I will enjoy it one day, when the time is right. Lord willing that I live that long. (Thinking 'Do not boast about tomorrow').

We are all on a never ending journey!
I wish you well whichever way it takes you.
But ignatius to smyrneans is only a few pages... which hopefully arouses your curiosity!

 

[HeLeadethMe]

I'm with you sister........I think that is even one reason why I am reluctant to be on forums now, I have been tired for a long time of writing/talking, and for much longer have wanted to be doing something. So much of what we see on forums is debate and arguing, though some of it is necessary, and sometimes some are helped to grow, and in spite of everything the Lord does get a word in edgewise now and then, I believe. But it is a far from ideal way for believers to gather. When more serious persecutions begin in the western nations, i think we will see a lot of what divides, the less serious matters, will just evaporate, and those who truly belong to the Lord out of any group, will come together, being pushed together because of circumstances....well we might be meeting in jail, or bumping into each other with our sleeping bags under the bridges, fleeing from one town to another if we can. That's how we will know one another, who are being let go from jobs, and being chased by the authorities for not bowing to the image or taking the mark, etc, and we will try to encourage and help each other. And with persecution..........comes glory.........and those who know their God will do great exploits.

It just seems to be an unfortunate reality for those of us alive at this time, that we are living through the falling away now.........we cannot be unequally yoked with those who are not even in possession of the gospel any more but are putting out the red carpet for antichrist. The Lord led me and many others in North America out of the churches here quite a few years ago, apart from one that I visited for a while, and I have no one to labour with in the harvest field. About two years ago I think it was, when I was complaining to the Lord about being alone, He brought me to the scripture where its says about Abraham..."when I called Him I called him alone"......so here I am, grateful to be rescued by the skin of my teeth out of the falling away, but wanting to be doing more for His kingdom. But Abraham is a clue, being led by the Lord........and here we have no continuing city. Well, I don't know how things are going to play out in the details, or exactly when, but I think all we can do right now is just try to live quietly in the land, follow the Lord one day at a time, and let our light shine with whoever we are in contact day by day. Whether we are aware of it or not, He is leading us.

 

[Ray Blick]

Hello Ray having a good day?
Of course He does!
I posted that to reassure Sam that the poor will always exist as Christ said and only Christ Himself coming again will end that not us on our efforts. To alliviate what we can while we can in our limited power.[/QUO

And I having spoken to Saint Beloved at some length was able to grasp what she was saying and draw comfort without much needing said. Maybe I should have replied in more detail to her on here though.

Sorry Sam, no harm done , I should have followed the whole thread. Blessings to you both

 

[Saint Beloved]

We live, we learn. No harm done.

 

[Senkaku]

I consider myself to follow Christ, who was non-denominational. For those who can't live without labels, I tell them I'm charismatic. In my opinion it was the religious or egotistical people of Jesus time who cared about doctrinal differences, I.E. Pharisees and Sadducees. I think it shows where someone is in their walk when they can only see you for your denomination or doctrines, rather than who God made you to be. In my opinion, they aren't really following Christ, but rather, a doctrine,idea,philosophy, religion, person, tradition,etc. Some people just like being right, I think it's just the flesh rearing it's head again and again. But hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[disciple1]

Was on another thread about denominations and was going to post what I wrote below but realised it would be off topic so guess I'm starting a thread.
Is anyone else non-denominational but attending a denominational church? What makes you so?

I think all denominations probably have it wrong. I don't see any of us living the life of the early church. I think we are all of the world too much and we should all gear ourselves towards becoming more active in the community, spreading the gospel, helping each other more and actually serving. Those who can. Those who can't should be doing what they can... prayer is an important ministry too.

I think its time we should all be measuring ourselves against scripture and walking the way Jesus said. The money we have been given from God for example, we should start thinking how we can put it to God's service instead of our own. This is what I feel is important, not denominations, not debating creation etc.

I'm not there yet but making changes to go in that direction. I think as soon as I have means to be child free sometimes I plan to use it immediately to get into some way of service.

spreading the gospel

You can't spread the gospel if you don't know the gospel, there's people who preach more about the sin of gay marriage than they do about people in church who have been divorced, neither matter.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.
Here's something most people who teach hate don't know.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 17
What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.

1. Romans chapter 4
   13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.

The law put into effect 1900 hundred years later also does not set aside the promise.
1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers many sins.
If you taught love you'd be like Christ, if you teach hate against abortion and gays your not like Christ.
That's the problem with the church.

 

[ChristianFromKazakhstan]

Was on another thread about denominations and was going to post what I wrote below but realised it would be off topic so guess I'm starting a thread.
Is anyone else non-denominational but attending a denominational church? What makes you so?

I think all denominations probably have it wrong. I don't see any of us living the life of the early church. I think we are all of the world too much and we should all gear ourselves towards becoming more active in the community, spreading the gospel, helping each other more and actually serving. Those who can. Those who can't should be doing what they can... prayer is an important ministry too.

I think its time we should all be measuring ourselves against scripture and walking the way Jesus said. The money we have been given from God for example, we should start thinking how we can put it to God's service instead of our own. This is what I feel is important, not denominations, not debating creation etc.

I'm not there yet but making changes to go in that direction. I think as soon as I have means to be child free sometimes I plan to use it immediately to get into some way of service.

You are right. All churches went astray, betrayed Jesus.

 

[Abbagirl2017]

I was raised in denominational churches .I realize that the Bible isn't lived and people just ignore scriptures.I left those churches and study myself.I look up churches that seek to follow NT .If he said to keep his commands ,and watch and pray, we should be doing that.Time we evaluated what we believing and follow after Truth.Come out and be separate...