Non-Christians

[prov1810]

Historically, this attitude certainly has informed some of the more questionable acts perpetrated by fanatical Christians, including forced conversions, the systematic destruction of indigenous cultures, enslavement, and genocide.

If someone believes that people are saved by faith alone, they wouldn't believe that forced conversions are valid.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

If someone believes that people are saved by faith alone, they wouldn't believe that forced conversions are valid.

Why not? If salvation is not a choice (on the part of us humans) to begin with, but something that God decides on, then it is faily easy to conceive that Christian soldiers are just instruments of the Divine Will, combating heathenism and spreading the "Good News" by any means possible. By their own nature, the savages are lost, anyway, and would never find their way. Total depravity, remember? Faith is not what saves people - it's Grace.

 

[prov1810]

Why not? If salvation is not a choice (on the part of us humans) to begin with, but something that God decides on, then it is faily easy to conceive that Christian soldiers are just instruments of the Divine Will, combating heathenism and spreading the "Good News" by any means possible. By their own nature, the savages are lost, anyway, and would never find their way. Total depravity, remember? Faith is not what saves people - it's Grace.

If it's something that God decides on, then we are not reborn by the will of man (John 1:13).

You are saying that Reformed Protestantism is OK with forced conversions. But that is not what they believe about faith. And then you say that is what they should believe, so that is why you find fault with them. There are basic problems with logic and fairness in your argument.

 

[dazed]

If it's something that God decides on, then we are not reborn by the will of man (John 1:13).

You are saying that Reformed Protestantism is OK with forced conversions. But that is not what they believe about faith. And then you say that is what they should believe, so that is why you find fault with them. There are basic problems with logic and fairness in your argument.

How do we know?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

If it's something that God decides on, then we are not reborn by the will of man (John 1:13).

You are saying that Reformed Protestantism is OK with forced conversions. But that is not what they believe about faith. And then you say that is what they should believe, so that is why you find fault with them. There are basic problems with logic and fairness in your argument.

Fact is
1) historically speaking, Christianity has been an instrument of what is now summarily called "colonialism" - regardless of whether it is a theologically consistent stance or not. The perpetrators did not act in this fashion in spite of their Christian faith, but because of it, and even major religious institutions were supportive of these practices.

2) TULIP-Calvinism leaves no room for free will or a chosen path of faith, nor does it claim to. Instead, it is made unequivocally clear that ONLY God chooses who is going to be saved and who is not, and that those who are left by the side of the road (or rather, in eternal torment) have been created for that very purpose, and are pre-ordained to keep on stumbling in darkness, wallowing in the filth of their own Total Depravity (as per the T of Tulip).

 

[prov1810]

2) TULIP-Calvinism leaves no room for free will or a chosen path of faith, nor does it claim to. Instead, it is made unequivocally clear that ONLY God chooses who is going to be saved and who is not, and that those who are left by the side of the road (or rather, in eternal torment) have been created for that very purpose, and are pre-ordained to keep on stumbling in darkness, wallowing in the filth of their own Total Depravity (as per the T of Tulip).

The belief that forced conversions are valid does not follow from these premisses.

1) historically speaking, Christianity has been an instrument of what is now summarily called "colonialism" - regardless of whether it is a theologically consistent stance or not.

I do not feel myself implicated in the burning of heretics or the distribution of smallpox blankets or the other crimes pointed out on this thread. My beliefs don't lead to these things.

I will be honest about being a universalist - someone who thinks that their worldview/ethos is the best thing for everyone. And this is not something that we've transcended in the West. Many of us now believe that Western technology, philosophical materialism and democratic liberalism would be a positive liberating force for people who do not yet have them.