Noah's Flood

[The Barbarian]

It was the Observer newspaper in the UK, but was over 20 years ago. They had a reputation of being reliable and trustworthy and it wasnt a fake. At that time I wasnt a Christian. If you think this is fake please provide evidence from a reputable source.

Doesn't matter at all. You will never get a date that old, from Carbon dating. Physically impossible. Like trying to get the temperature of a blast furnace with a candy thermometer.

 

[The Barbarian]

how did this vapor canopy extend life expectancy? By crushing people under it's enormous pressure?

At the temperatures such a cover would produce, I'd think they would be incinerated long before the pressure killed them.

 

[Quartermaine]

Viewpoints often come down to how we choose to interpret the evidence based on our worldview. Our interpretations differ.

viewpoints may differ but reality remains. our theory on stellar formation doesn't require anyone to actually make a new star.

 

[Quartermaine]

The greenland shark does continue growing which lives in the deep ocean. It would fit this model better than cave dwelling creatures as well. They are know to live to over 400 years old and as they live so deep they are not commonly seen no one knows how old they can live to.

the reason greenland sharks are so long lived is likely their slow metabolism much like tortoises, who incidentally only thrive with direct sunlight

 

[Quartermaine]

the vapour canopy covered the entire globe

evidence?

 

[Quartermaine]

No, I push for scripture.

by posing any wacky idea necessary.

 

[Quartermaine]

"It would have let light through"

Again you seem to assume things about the canopy such as how thick it was. I am not giving the canopy any numerical value. I am not talking about Isaac Vail's canopy theory which had it 40 feet thick. The Bible doesn't say how much water was above, just that there was water above.

first a "canopy" 40 feet thick woudl produce less than 2 cm of rain.

however that same 40 feet would cause the surface temperature of the earth to rise to an average of 200 degrees Fahrenheit. it would kill everything

All gas, including water vapor has a property called optical depth. it is a measure of how far or how much light can pass through it. the optical depth of 40 ft of water vapor would reduce by over 90% meaning the earth at high noon would be about as dim as a moonless night.

No one mentioned caves...
There were many giant animals, some dinosaurs being one but other giant megafauna like wolves, horses, bears etc.

you attempted to claim that "Filtering out harmful radiation from space allowing for much longer life spans and also growth spans of animals that don't stop growing." well rock is a much better radiation filter than water vapor so residing in a cave woudl grant even more growth benefits than living under a vapor canopy but we don't have mega fauna dwelling in caves do we?

The flood caused the ice age.

there have been 5 ice ages. what caused the other 4?

It would have been the exact thickness to allow for that.

then it would be exactly as thick as it is now....zero

 

[Quartermaine]

Wow, I knew there were some theories about humans hunting them to extinction and disease killing them off, which is why I referred to them in my post. But since I don't have these particular references available to read I am assuming these answer the key questions that had been left unanswered, so that is great.

1. Mesopotamia is the cradle of civilization. One would think that if human populations were going to hunt the creatures to extinction or if disease from humans would kill them off then surely Mesopotamia would be the hardest hit.

why would you assume that?
Civilization began with the development of agriculture. If anything the extinction of mega fauna woudl be part of the push to develop agriculture

Particularly domesticated animals. Since they are in close contact with human civilization unlike the giant sloth or saber tooth tiger, or Mastodon, one would think they would be killed by the diseases first.

did any of these live in Mesopotamia? (hint: no they were all long extinct.)

So how did they answer this question? Why is it that virtually every domesticated animal is from Mesopotamia whereas all the other large ungulates from around the world went extinct?

Dogs, horses and cattle were all domesticated thousands of years before Mesopotamia

2. Did they discover the treasure trove of hides and bones that must have been piled up in some human villages?

permanent communities are again a product of agriculture. That said there are numerous sites with a "treasure trove" as you call it of megafauna bones near caves that housed humans in Jordan and Spain and France and Nigeria and hundreds of other places

3. How do they explain approximately 200 flood myths in civilizations all over the world with similar components (a family survives by building a boat that rests on the top of a mountain, from them the world is repopulated). For example, the oldest word for boat in the chinese language is composed of two words "eight" and "souls". Why would eight people mean boat unless you are referring to Noah, his three sons and their wives?

myths like languages have common ancestors

There are thousands of cultures with myths about the sun being transported across the sky by animals. how do you explain that?

No doubt the scientists have answered these questions, but since you are a Christian I expect you can answer this question as well. Jesus said that the end of this age would be as the days of Noah. Now if Noah's flood never happened in the first place it would be impossible for it to "happen again".

"days of Noah" doesn't say anything about a flood.

Yet in 1988 Time magazine made the Earth Time's person of the year because of the extinctions going on. To preserve the species from being wiped out in the latest extinction event they talked of an "ark" that had been built to house the genetic material from hundreds of thousands of species. It is very rare that you find someone who knows more than the Lord Jesus, so since you are a know it all Christian surely you can answer this question as well.

what question?

 

[1an]

That's different.
The flood occurred before the nation of Israel came to be.
It occurred when there was one giant landmass, no separate continents. The flood caused the continents and islands- IE England.
the vapour canopy covered the entire globe
God specifically said about the flood that it was everything with breath in its nostrils across the entire world. Again one landmass.

The Old Testament is specifically about Israel.
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[Quartermaine]

You say I don't know science, yet you don't have a good handle on the Biblical model.
Mt Everest didn't exist as Mt Everest before the flood, the volcanic action during the flood created it.

mt Everest isn't volcanic

 

[Cis.jd]

Every ancient civilization around the globe has stories of a great flood, sure all of these stories are fiction/myth but most myths have truth in it's core. These stories/folklore are most likely inspired by an actual flood that happened.

A global flood can't just be brushed off because of it being a poplar religion story. Even by non-christians. It is common for atheists to reject a global flood ever happened, mainly because they reject all contents of the Bible. But, these same people also believe in the Ice Age, and logically the ice melted from that age should cause a global flood (or at least the majority of the world would be flooded).

 

[Job 33:6]

As I said it was 20 or so years ago, Im pretty sure they reported it as carbon dating (no mention of C14). It may have been another type of dating though such as someone mentioned above about other types. Other than that I stand by my comment that it is what they reported. The only other thing Im not 100% sure on is the 250 years could have been 200. Im as sure as I can be that the others are what was reported, it was definitely at least 1,000,000 times out.

Like I said, if they were reporting carbon dating results at tens of hundreds of millions of years old, then it was misinformation. It's fine if you stand by your personal memory of the article. You should just be aware that if your memory is accurate, then what you read 20 years ago, was misinformation.

 

[Blade]

I knew this would get flood of a.....wonderful different ideas and facts lol.

"diseases were caused by germs not evil spirits, the earth is not the center of the universe."
you made this statement as if it was fact. Leaving out scriptures one can then make almost any argument work. Like so and so said this, this book with all the facts show us.. on and on.

So here God will seem silly to hard to believe. Yet man on one planet of countless stars haha knows the real truth. See no man after this life will have an excuse saying there is no God..no proof because if some young rapper can see it" look around at this world we walk on It's a smack in the face, don't ever tell me there's no God"

See when Christ was riding they want to stop the people from cheering worshiping. Christ said.. tell you that if these [people] should keep silent, the stones would immediately cry out." Right now sin rules not just on this earth but all the way into the stars. Everything God makes is alive, has life. All creation praises Him.

Nf oh lord

It's easy to blame God but harder to fix things
We look in the sky like, "why ain't You listening?"
Watching the news in our living rooms on the big screens
And talking 'bout "if God's really real, then where is He?"
You see the same God that you saying might not even exist
Becomes real to us, but only when we dying in bed
When ya healthy it's like, we don't really care for Him then
Leave me alone God, I'll call you when I need you again
Which is funny, everyone will sleep in the pews
Then blame God for our problems like He sleeping on you
We turn our backs on Him, what do you expect Him to do?
It's hard to answer prayers when nobody's praying to you
I look around at this world we walk on
It's a smack in the face, don't ever tell me there's no God
And if there isn't then what are we here for?
And what are y'all doing down there? I don't know Lord

 

[SeventyOne]

In 2 Peter 3:3-5, in indicated one of the signs in the last days would be those who were scoffers who would deliberately overlook the entire world was destroyed by water. when we see this behavior, we know scripturally who they are.

 

[1an]

In 2 Peter 3:3-5, in indicated one of the signs in the last days would be those who were scoffers who would deliberately overlook the entire world was destroyed by water. when we see this behavior, we know scripturally who they are.

2 Peter 3:3-4 has nothing to do with the flood.
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."
.

 

[Quartermaine]

Every ancient civilization around the globe has stories of a great flood, sure all of these stories are fiction/myth but most myths have truth in it's core. These stories/folklore are most likely inspired by an actual flood that happened.

A global flood can't just be brushed off because of it being a poplar religion story. Even by non-christians. It is common for atheists to reject a global flood ever happened, mainly because they reject all contents of the Bible. But, these same people also believe in the Ice Age, and logically the ice melted from that age should cause a global flood (or at least the majority of the world would be flooded).

The ice age reduced sea levels as more and more water was sequestered in glaciers. the drop in sea levels increased available land and low lying parts of the ocean became dry land. The baring straights between Alaska and Russia was one such area the resulting land bridge allowed humans to migrate to the America's. When the ice age ended there was no world wide flood, sea levels just returned to where they are now, more or less.

 

[1an]

The ice age reduced sea levels as more and more water was sequestered in glaciers. the drop in sea levels increased available land and low lying parts of the ocean became dry land. The baring straights between Alaska and Russia was one such area the resulting land bridge allowed humans to migrate to the America's. When the ice age ended there was no world wide flood, sea levels just returned to where they are now, more or less.

Thank you for the post, simply because it helps resolve the ongoing arguments regarding the age of the earth. The ice ages being long before the bronze age described in Genesis chapter four.
.

 

[Qwertyui0p]

Christians who take every part of the bible literally, the flood according to the bible happened a little over 4000 years ago. A global flood like that 20 feet over the tallest mountain. Your water 4 miles deep. A flood like that would have ripped the earth to pieces and flattened every thing. The oldest man made structure go back 10's of thousands of years none of them would have survived the flood. Geology, biology, physics, and astronomy and carbon dating (Advancing technology has allowed radiocarbon dating to become accurate to within just a few decades in many cases). The bible is the history and myths of the Jewish people. That does not mean god is not real but it does mean, the earth is not flat, diseases were caused by germs not evil spirits, the earth is not the center of the universe. The people of the ancient world believed what they believed out of ignorance. Now as for a massive destructive flood like the Black sea flood, that is probably the truth of the flood that every culture on the planet has a story for. But as for the bibles version of the flood it did not happen.

All purported dating methods depend on assumptions How dating methods work - creation.com
The Bible does not say that the earth is flat Refuting flat earth - creation.com or at the centre of the universe Refuting absolute geocentrism - creation.com.
Also, Jesus believed the Bible is inerrant Jesus Christ on the infallibility of Scripture - creation.com.

 

[SeventyOne]

2 Peter 3:3-4 has nothing to do with the flood.
"Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."
.

Meant to add verse 6 to the reference.

2 Peter 3:3-6: knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.​

 

[1an]

Meant to add verse 6 to the reference.

2 Peter 3:3-6: knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.​

Very true, but let me tell you another truth. I live in Sheffield near Hillsborough, you may have heard of the football team? Now as you drive or walk through Hillsborough into the next village called Wadsley, there is a stone marker located on a bridge, the river that flows underneath the bridge marks the boundary between Hillsborough and Wadsley. On the stone boundary marker are the words carved into the stone, "World End."

When you leave Hillsborough and go into Wadsley you are going from one world and into another world. They had their own council and their own policeman etc. That is how it was with the ancient people, and Israel was their world with their own priests and law makers etc. It did not belong to anyone else. It was their world that had been flooded and nobody else. If it had been Babylon or somewhere else, I doubt if it would even have even got a mention, they only recorded their own history.
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