Noah's Flood

Steven Beck · Sep 16, 2020

Quartermaine said:
you have no idea what the 2nd law of thermodynamics says do you?

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Simple Version
The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that processes that involve the transfer or conversion of heat energy are irreversible. ... The Second Law also states that there is a natural tendency of any isolated system to degenerate into a more disordered state.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of any isolated system always increases.
or
The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an isolated system can never decrease over time, and is constant if and only if all processes are reversible.[1] Isolated systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium, the state with maximum entropy.

Entropy, the measure of a system's thermal energy per unit temperature that is unavailable for doing useful work. Because work is obtained from ordered molecular motion, the amount of entropy is also a measure of the molecular disorder, or randomness, of a system.

When the Laws of Thermodynamics were being formulated, they revolved around heat engines. Over time these Laws apply to chemical processes, molecular processes and also biological processes.
If you look at the Law closely it says that the energy flow is from maximum to minimum. The more complex a system is the more energy it takes to run that system and as that energy is lost the complex system breaks down. This Law is far more profound than most realize.

Steven Beck · Sep 16, 2020

Quartermaine said:
there is actually more craters on the far side of the moon,

see?

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Whoops I blew that one. I mixed up the sides.

Job 33:6 · Sep 16, 2020

Steven Beck said:
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Actually I did answer the question, you just didn't like the answer.

So you think that babies, while developing in the womb from a sperm an egg, are descending into chaos, even while their body grows in size, strength and fitness?

Keep on mind, that at the start of conception, a baby starts from nothing more than a sperm and an egg. And this develops and grows and multiplies into a full blown muscular, physically bigger, physically stronger, physically more fit and robust, human being.

You think that this human being is dying and descending into chaos as they grow and develop?

Is this what you're saying?

Quartermaine · Sep 16, 2020

Steven Beck said:
****************************************************************************

Simple Version

great you can cut and paste.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that processes that involve the transfer or conversion of heat energy are irreversible. ... The Second Law also states that there is a natural tendency of any isolated system to degenerate into a more disordered state.

The second law of thermodynamics states that the entropy of any isolated system always increases.
or
The second law of thermodynamics states that the total entropy of an isolated system can never decrease over time,

an isolated system?

hmmm that sounds suspiciously like "closed" system...but that is just a bogeyman and has no relevance to the 2nd law of thermodynamics

Quartermaine · Sep 16, 2020

Steven Beck said:
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Humans, animals, insects, fish, plants, trees are 'born' and start dying from day 1 so yeahhhhh. When you can show me a dog born with wings that breathes fire then I may just believe that evolution is real . or better still how about a cat that can change colour like a chameleon. Now that would be something.

why would either of these be evidence of evolution?

1an · Sep 16, 2020

coffee4u said:
The creation of the world is not about Israel, it is about the creation of the entire planet.

The fall is not about the fall of Israel but how the entire world fell into decay.
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned--

The flood is not about Israel which at this point still did not exist, but the entire world.

Israel did not come into being until after Jacob wrestled with God.
Genesis 32:28

28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”
While much of the Old Testament is about Israel, not all of it is and we as Christians can still gain much knowledge from it. Shadows in the Old testament show as being fulfilled in the New.

When Paul tells us the last day with be like Noah's time (very sinful) and then says 'every eye shall see' he also means the entire world, not just Israel.

Nowhere in the Bible will you find ape-men or millions of years, that comes from outside of scripture. That comes from the mind of men. You are welcome to it, but for me and my house, we believe the Bible only.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

The creation account is global. it is correct and it was God. The accuracy of the account is evidence of divine inspiration. The contraction of time into six of our days is due to a misunderstanding of the meaning of one word which has several meanings. You need to listen to what people are telling you. If you get it right it actually enhances the Word of God. Otherwise people who know better, think Christians are stupid, and they would be right.
.

Job 33:6 · Sep 16, 2020

Creationism and the second law of thermodynamics. This video was made by an atheist, but the math applies none the less:

As Christians, we should quit hiding from the science, and rather should claim it under the Glory of God.

Quartermaine · Sep 16, 2020

Steven Beck said:
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Oh dear we are into personal attacks already. I did real science not pretend science. but anyway I do know what an open system is and still has no relevance to the 2nd Law of thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is about entropy and is related to the energy in the system. For those of you who read this the 2nd Law states that material left to itself goes from an ordered state into chaos. In other words things run down. We see this in everyday life. All our machines break down and need repair. Houses need painting, stuff rusts. It takes an outside influence to intervene and repair or maintain. Order to Chaos. Evolutionists want us to believe that life goes from chaos to ordered and not only that but a higher level of ordered. DNA is the code to life just like computer code. Evolutionists want us to believe that somehow computer code can be rewritten and reassembled all by itself.
Example reptile to bird.

"The second law of thermodynamics is sometimes used as a reason why increased lifespans are not possible, but this is due to a misunderstanding of what the second law really means in terms of biology; even many scientists get this wrong. While it is true that entropy makes aging the default, it does not preclude rejuvenation in an open system, and as living animals, we are open systems. If this were not so, then our children would be born aged rather than young, but they are not." Alvaro Macieira-Coelho research director at the French National Institute of Health and Medical Research

So you have reptile DNA. You need to insert code that adds wings and the muscular responses to use those wings. Reptiles are too heavy so we need code to make reptile lighter, say make hollow bones. Then feathers, change mouthful of teeth to a beak. That would need a few million lines of new code then the data store for variables such as feather color, etc.

Draco spilonotus didn't need all that

of course it is a reptile and not a bird. and birds evolved from dinosaurs not lizards.....

1an · Sep 16, 2020

Quartermaine said:
"The second law of thermodynamics is sometimes used as a reason why increased lifespans are not possible, but this is due to a misunderstanding of what the second law really means in terms of biology; even many scientists get this wrong. While it is true that entropy makes aging the default, it does not preclude rejuvenation in an open system, and as living animals, we are open systems. If this were not so, then our children would be born aged rather than young, but they are not." Alvaro Macieira-Coelho research director at the French National Institute of Health and Medical Research

Draco spilonotus didn't need all that

of course it is a reptile and not a bird. and birds evolved from dinosaurs not lizards.....

Am I right in thinking that species cannot cross breed, or if they do, the offspring are sterile? I'm thinking of the donkey for example.

Job 33:6 · Sep 16, 2020

1an said:
Am I right in thinking that species cannot cross breed, or if they do, the offspring are sterile? I'm thinking of the donkey for example.

To understand speciation, we have to consider what a species is on a molecular level.

A species is defined by DNA that is common in a population of living things. But no single individual is genetically identical to another (except maybe in the case of some types of twins). And this means that the difference between one species and another at times can be as small as a single microscopic difference in DNA.

And with that, It becomes very difficult to define one specific species from another in a clearly objective way, but rather we define species based on our limited efforts to put concepts into boxes.

It's like when we try to define what water is safe to drink or not, Is water with six parts per billion benzene safe? Is water with five parts per billion benzene safe? These are very arbitrary concepts and so we do the best we can to create an artificial man-made box around it, And so we call one safe and the other not safe, And we call one population one species and another population a different species.

And sometimes it is really easy to differentiate between species that are extensively different such as a rabbit and a horse. But it becomes much more difficult to put a rigid man-made box around one species of horse and another species of horse.

So in a layman sense species can be defined based on whether or not they interbreed. But this is just a man-made constructed box that we just try to put species into. And the complexity of the natural world just doesn't fit into a clean box in such a way and so we may find exceptions where two species can interbreed. Even if just in rare cases.

So when we look at something like a geographically isolated ring species, We can say that the species that is isolated is different from its original ancestor species, but you have to understand that this is a human thought-based boundary between the two, And it isn't always necessarily true that the beginnings species and the end species cannot interbreed (though the majority of times this will be true, it may not always be).

Though if we go a step further and look at two genus, then We could probably say with a lot more confidence that in no case could two different genus ever inter breed, Even if it were two genus of a single family or order.

1an · Sep 16, 2020

coffee4u said:
I believe in sola Scriptura. Evolution and millions of years is not scripture.

So scripture is a fairy tale? Good to know where you stand.
Exodus 20:11
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
God says he created everything in 6 days and I believe him over any man-made theory.

Those 8 people who came off the ark, they became numerous and built the tower of Babel at which point God confused their languages and they split into people groups. One of those groups became Israel, the rest spread and we are all descended from them.

The word yome is in the original Hebrew manuscripts, it got translated as day unfortunately. Now you know about the mistake you need to upgrade your knowledge.

When we say in our grandparent's day we do not mean 24 hours.

The "day of the Lord" does not mean one day.
.

Brightmoon · Sep 16, 2020

1an said:
Am I right in thinking that species cannot cross breed, or if they do, the offspring are sterile? I'm thinking of the donkey for example.

that’s true only sometimes . Brassicaraphano is a cross between a cabbage and a radish . They weren’t even in the same genus let alone species . Yet they formed a healthy fertile new species that cannot mate with either parent species. Allopolyploidy is common in plants and Rare in animals . Even our own species,Homo sapiens, interbred with at least 3 or 4 other species of extinct humans

1an · Sep 16, 2020

KomatiiteBIF said:
To understand speciation, we have to consider what a species is on a molecular level.

A species is defined by DNA that is common in a population of living things. But no single individual is genetically identical to another (except maybe in the case of some types of twins). And this means that the difference between one species and another at times can be as small as a single microscopic difference in DNA.

And with that, It becomes very difficult to define one specific species from another in a clearly objective way, but rather we define species based on our limited efforts to put concepts into boxes.

It's like when we try to define what water is safe to drink or not, Is water with six parts per billion benzene safe? Is water with five parts per billion benzene safe? These are very arbitrary concepts and so we do the best we can to create an artificial man-made box around it, And so we call one safe and the other not safe, And we call one population one species and another population a different species.

And sometimes it is really easy to differentiate between species that are extensively different such as a rabbit and a horse. But it becomes much more difficult to put a rigid man-made box around one species of horse and another species of horse.

So in a layman sense species can be defined based on whether or not they interbreed. But this is just a man-made constructed box that we just try to put species into. And the complexity of the natural world just doesn't fit into a clean box in such a way and so we may find exceptions where two species can interbreed. Even if just in rare cases.

So when we look at something like a geographically isolated ring species, We can say that the species that is isolated is different from its original ancestor species, but you have to understand that this is a human thought-based boundary between the two, And it isn't always necessarily true that the beginnings species and the end species cannot interbreed (though the majority of times this will be true, it may not always be).

Though if we go a step further and look at two genus, then We could probably say with a lot more confidence that in no case could two different genus ever inter breed, Even if it were two genus of a single family or order.

So donkeys can breed and even interbreed with elephants.

AV1611VET · Sep 16, 2020

1an said:
The word yome is in the original Hebrew manuscripts, it got translated as day unfortunately. Now you know about the mistake you need to upgrade your knowledge.

Any mistranslations would have been corrected by the King James translators.

"Heaven" is singular in Genesis 1:1 and plural in 2:1.

Which makes sense, because He created two more heavens between the two passages.

AV1611VET · Sep 16, 2020

1an said:
So donkeys can breed and even interbreed with elephants.

On paper.

Job 33:6 · Sep 16, 2020

1an said:
So donkeys can breed and even interbreed with elephants.

Elephants are too genetically different, so no.

But two species of say, some lizards, may be able to.

1an · Sep 16, 2020

KomatiiteBIF said:
Elephants are too genetically different, so no.

But two species of say, some lizards, may be able to.

If we are descended from monkeys, why can't we have a monkey baby?

d taylor · Sep 16, 2020

AV1611VET said:
On paper.

On paper science has created their own creation, too bad most of humanity (including christians) believe the one science has created. Instead of the true one found in the Bible.

Brightmoon · Sep 16, 2020

1an said:
So donkeys can breed and even interbreed with elephants.

don’t be silly .

usually Allopolyploids are closely related especially with animals. In plants they don’t have to be

AV1611VET · Sep 16, 2020

1an said:
If we are descended from monkeys, why can't we have a monkey baby?

Or speak Monkenese?

Noah's Flood

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Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.

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