Noah's Ark

[Obliquinaut]

Okay, chief, thank you.

I'm sorry, but I stopped right there.

Thanks for letting me know you stopped reading mid post! It shows me how very much you disrespect me that you LET ME KNOW you stopped reading! (Otherwise I might not know! And where would the fun be in that???)

You changed your mind ... good for you.

I am capable of doing so.

I don't need six paragraphs detailing what you went through.

I'm so sorry if I actually think through my positions. It must be painful to people like you. I tend to think a lot about stuff.

I'm proud of you. Let's leave it at that, eh?

I don't need you to be proud of me. I don't value that in any way. (Sorry.)

 

[AV1611VET]

 

[Subduction Zone]

You can if the concepts are qualified as they should be, and as they can be understood to be by those who care enough to understand. But......I do understand your annoyance and being told you "have no excuse." I personally do think non-believers have some margin for excuse. I even think Paul the Apostle would agree, even though he is the one who wrote "they are without excuse!"

Just something to think about, Subduction Zone. I know that theology isn't your cup of tea, so I don't blame you if it gets a bit frustrating to hear Christians say this, that and the other.

But, they can have it both ways, especially when you might see that we're not really dealing with an 'excluded middle.'

I disagree in this case. The version of god that supposedly claims there is no excuse also plays hide and seek. No matter how hard one looks for him he is not to be found.

 

[AV1611VET]

I disagree in this case. The version of god that supposedly claims there is no excuse also plays hide and seek. No matter how hard one looks for him he is not to be found.

Matthew 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
Matthew 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
Matthew 11:4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

Hear:

See:

 

[lesliedellow]

Matthew 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
Matthew 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
Matthew 11:4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

That is a quote mine if ever I heard one. Jesus did not suggest that John should be able to draw any inferences from a Christmas carol and a church building.

 

[AV1611VET]

That is a quote mine if ever I heard one. Jesus did not suggest that John should be able to draw any inferences from a Christmas carol and a church building.

Does what Jesus told John's disciples apply to SZ as well?

Do you know what the Bible means, when It says It is "quick"?

Hebrews 4:12a For the word of God is quick,

 

[lesliedellow]

Does what Jesus told John's disciples apply to SZ as well?

Jesus is not here, preaching the Gospel, or curing diseases. Therefore there is nobody who can report on what they saw.

Do you know what the Bible means, when It says It is "quick"?

Hebrews 4:12a For the word of God is quick,

The metaphor is practically untranslatable, which is why a metaphor was used in the first place.

 

[Obliquinaut]

Does what Jesus told John's disciples apply to SZ as well?

Do you know what the Bible means, when It says It is "quick"?

Hebrews 4:12a For the word of God is quick,

Does it not mean "living" as in "the quick and the dead" as in the apostles creed as well as 2Timothy 4:1

 

[AV1611VET]

Does it not mean "living" as in "the quick and the dead" as in the apostles creed as well as 2Timothy 4:1

Yes, indeed!

That means that the Bible, unlike any other book, is alive.

Meaning It is just as applicable today as It was yesterday.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Matthew 11:2 Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,
Matthew 11:3 And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another?
Matthew 11:4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Go and shew John again those things which ye do hear and see:

Hear:

See:

How do they not hit you up with blasphemy charges here when you abuse the Bible in such a manner?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, indeed!

That means that the Bible, unlike any other book, is alive.

Meaning It is just as applicable today as It was yesterday.

No, it merely means that you are guilty of an equivocation fallacy.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I disagree in this case. The version of god that supposedly claims there is no excuse also plays hide and seek. No matter how hard one looks for him he is not to be found.

...right. And what you're stating here is part of my point. However, one of the problems with your statements is that your expectation of God to dispose of His apparent hide and seek tactics is conditioned by what you feel you must require for Him to do in order to count as having "appeared." In other words, the evidence He offers isn't the kind of evidence that you (or I) in today's modern, scientific landscape will usually accept.

From what I understand, God isn't going to play by our epistemological expectations or by our human rules for persuasion. So, when we see Paul saying "we have no excuses," we have to also understand that his statement is contextualized by an ancient Jewish religious paradigm and the attending concepts therein that 'count' as evidence for faith.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Then why quibble about the flood that we know did not happen?

I'm not quibbling. I swallow the story as told; hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not quibbling. I swallow the story as told; hook, line, and sinker.

You are right, you are doing far worse.

You really should try to learn why we know that there was no flood. Your ad hoc explanations all fail when investigated. Are you not interested in the truth of what happened?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Indeed. Most humans are able to arrive at a very workable set of ethics and morality even in the absence of a holy book or God. Which is why it is so annoying to many atheists to hear that we can't possibly have morals because we don't believe in God.

You are mistaken.

14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another......." Romans 2:14-15

 

[OldWiseGuy]

You are right, you are doing far worse.

You really should try to learn why we know that there was no flood. Your ad hoc explanations all fail when investigated. Are you not interested in the truth of what happened?

I know why you don't believe it. You have told me in great detail.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know why you don't believe it. You have told me in great detail.

I only began.

The question is why do you think that God lied? Since God had to make the evidence that tells us that there was no flood according to your beliefs that means that God is trying to mislead people.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are mistaken.

14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another......." Romans 2:14-15

Sorry, quoting from a prejudiced book does not support your claims.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That's where it started.
(mostly)
.... Yet thankfully, as you acknowledge, there is a remnent of true believers who are scientists also, and who seek and who speak the truth,
instead of the mandatory lies of society/ the devil/ perniciously.

The Hebrew root word for serpent reveals all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Hebrew root word for serpent reveals all.

Oh please, if you are only going to attempt to flame others will flame back when you are not honest.